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This reminds me of how a friend (as a teenager in the 90s) would buy expensive video cards from Best Buy and CompUSA only to swap them out with cheap cards off

This reminds me of how a friend (as a teenager in the 90s) would buy expensive video cards from Best Buy and CompUSA only to swap them out with cheap cards off eBay, re-shrink wrap the box and return for a hefty profit. I thought it was a clever, profitable hack at 16 years old but now I’m ashamed I didn’t just call this what it was: theft.

gruez 6y ago
>now I’m ashamed I didn’t just call this what it was: theft. Isn't it technically fraud?
- stronglikedan 6y ago
  It's technically both - theft by defrauding.
- paulryanrogers 6y ago
  Possibly both theft and fraud
- DanBC 6y ago
  Theft: dishonestly appropriating something, with the intent of permanently depriving the owner. He dishonestly took the item. He had no intent of giving it back.
inetknght 6y ago
My father was a victim to that type of fraud.
fortran77 6y ago
You could write a check to Best Buy (have it delivered via an attorney to protect your identity) and make good on your theft. It's too late for CompUSA--you already put them out of business.
- stronglikedan 6y ago
  > your theft > you already It was their friend, not them.
raincom 6y ago
Fry's electronics when I was there was a victim of that. Fry's management in their heydays (before newegg, amazon) gave the directive to open boxes, even when these boxes appear new, during the return-process. This is the result of lessons. Hopefully, Amazon will learn it or make it a problem for the vendors.
- sjm-lbm 6y ago
  At least they were doing something about it. In my younger days working retail at CompUSA, I once pointed out that a customer was attempting to return a cheaper video card in a better video card's box. I got in trouble (not much trouble, but still) for making the customer unhappy :/.
  - cutemonster 6y ago
    The managers were annoyed at you for a while? How did it end
    - sjm-lbm 6y ago
      Oh, the ending wasn't super interesting. I was telling the customer that I wasn't going to process the return, they asked to get a manager - and when I obliged, the manager sided with the customer and chided me a little after they left. That's pretty much the end of it, I don't recall it coming up after that one day.
- kayfox 6y ago
  Fry's is the only retailer I have been to where an LP associate insisted on opening up a product I just bought new to inspect it. Yep, its a rice cooker, I should have went over to returns to return it as its condition changed from new to open box before I left the store.
  - bdowling 6y ago
    > Yep, its a rice cooker A rice cooker is a cylindrical item that usually comes in a rectangular box that leaves empty room in the corners. The LP associate was checking for additional unpurchased items in the box, not that you were getting a rice cooker.
hn_check 6y ago
A very common tactic during the period when video cards were improving rapidly was to buy a card, use it for six months, and then return it and buy the newer one. Rinse and repeat. For a while a lot of these electronics retailers had a zero question policy, but when they moved to asking "Why?", people would proudly talk about ruining the card with 120v to justify the return. There are ways that people can rationalize these gaming of the system behaviors, but it just seems to be a descent to crapitude, where every retailer treats every return as a crime, because often it really is.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  > There are ways that people can rationalize these gaming of the system behaviors, but it just seems to be a descent to crapitude, where every retailer treats every return as a crime, because often it really is. I do wonder where the line is, though. I didn't have a PS3 growing up, but I wanted to play Uncharted and a few other games when I was in High School. Game rentals were long gone by then, much less console rentals—but I realized that Gamestop had a 7-day return policy on used hardware. So one year, during spring break, I bought a used PS3 and copies of Uncharted 2 and 3. I didn't manage to finish the latter in time, but I still enjoyed myself. I am to this day convinced I did nothing wrong. The console was used both before and after purchase, and I took good care of the hardware and followed the written return policy. And in the process, I bought multiple non-returnable games from the store. But I was definitely taking advantage of the return policy, since I had no intention of holding on to the console.
  - Cd00d 6y ago
    I think you're good. Gamestop was never on the high end of the integrity debate. "oh you have a game that was $60 12 months ago? Here's $2 and I'll put that on the shelf for $57"
    - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
      But that doesn't seem like a great way to make decisions, right? "It's okay to screw over this store because I don't like Other Thing X that they're doing."
StavrosK 6y ago
I have a friend who regularly buys items on Amazon, uses them for a couple of years and then returns them just before the warranty expires because of "dead pixels" or some other excuse, and gets a full refund.
- milankragujevic 6y ago
  That is so mean. Meanwhile I got a new Galaxy S9+ (not in USA obv.) which was broken from day 1 and couldn't get it replaced without suing the store and that would take years. I had to get a brand new phone serviced instead (battery, motherboard). And maybe it wasn't water resistant anymore after being opened. World isn't fair. :(
- crististm 6y ago
  find better friends
- Spivak 6y ago
  There are some products that are so unreliable that I have zero sympathy for the company that's reaping what they sow with the warranty. I have a personal electric heater that has a two year warranty but refuses to last a winter. Like it just sits in my bedroom living a cushy life as far as heaters go. But I'm on my 3rd replacement and they keep re-upping the warranty and so I'll probably get a new one every year at this point.
- stordoff 6y ago
  I'm not surprised this can be abused - I emailed Amazon a few years ago about a pair of headphones asking if they could do anything as the manufacturer wouldn't honour the warranty (part of the serial number was illegible IIRC), 18 months after purchase (they had a two year warranty). I was expecting them to, at best, send a replacement. They sent me a full refund before I'd even sent the item back, even though the price of the item had dropped in the mean time.
  - StavrosK 6y ago
    I had the same thing happen with a Canon 50mm lens, I was starting out with photography and thought I was just bad, until I realized two years later that the lens would not focus properly, and never did. After testing it, I told Amazon, and they asked me to send the lens back and sent me a full refund. In my case, the product was legitimately broken ever since I bought it, but I dislike people abusing the system.
mbajkowski 6y ago
Used to work at Computer City in the mid 90s. It was not always that easy to verify if you had the right product in the box even when opening a returned item, especially if you were not familiar with the product being returned. Looking things up on the internet was not always possible / slow. Every store did have a shrink wrap machine which were used nightly. Hard to say how many improperly returned products were resold back then, or even how many goods may have been repackaged in the back warehouse on reception before ever hitting the floor.

gruez 6y ago

>now I’m ashamed I didn’t just call this what it was: theft. Isn't it technically fraud?

stronglikedan 6y ago
It's technically both - theft by defrauding.
paulryanrogers 6y ago
Possibly both theft and fraud
DanBC 6y ago
Theft: dishonestly appropriating something, with the intent of permanently depriving the owner. He dishonestly took the item. He had no intent of giving it back.

inetknght 6y ago

My father was a victim to that type of fraud.

fortran77 6y ago

You could write a check to Best Buy (have it delivered via an attorney to protect your identity) and make good on your theft. It's too late for CompUSA--you already put them out of business.

stronglikedan 6y ago
> your theft > you already It was their friend, not them.

raincom 6y ago

Fry's electronics when I was there was a victim of that. Fry's management in their heydays (before newegg, amazon) gave the directive to open boxes, even when these boxes appear new, during the return-process. This is the result of lessons. Hopefully, Amazon will learn it or make it a problem for the vendors.

sjm-lbm 6y ago
At least they were doing something about it. In my younger days working retail at CompUSA, I once pointed out that a customer was attempting to return a cheaper video card in a better video card's box. I got in trouble (not much trouble, but still) for making the customer unhappy :/.
- cutemonster 6y ago
  The managers were annoyed at you for a while? How did it end
  - sjm-lbm 6y ago
    Oh, the ending wasn't super interesting. I was telling the customer that I wasn't going to process the return, they asked to get a manager - and when I obliged, the manager sided with the customer and chided me a little after they left. That's pretty much the end of it, I don't recall it coming up after that one day.
kayfox 6y ago
Fry's is the only retailer I have been to where an LP associate insisted on opening up a product I just bought new to inspect it. Yep, its a rice cooker, I should have went over to returns to return it as its condition changed from new to open box before I left the store.
- bdowling 6y ago
  > Yep, its a rice cooker A rice cooker is a cylindrical item that usually comes in a rectangular box that leaves empty room in the corners. The LP associate was checking for additional unpurchased items in the box, not that you were getting a rice cooker.

hn_check 6y ago

A very common tactic during the period when video cards were improving rapidly was to buy a card, use it for six months, and then return it and buy the newer one. Rinse and repeat. For a while a lot of these electronics retailers had a zero question policy, but when they moved to asking "Why?", people would proudly talk about ruining the card with 120v to justify the return. There are ways that people can rationalize these gaming of the system behaviors, but it just seems to be a descent to crapitude, where every retailer treats every return as a crime, because often it really is.

Wowfunhappy 6y ago
> There are ways that people can rationalize these gaming of the system behaviors, but it just seems to be a descent to crapitude, where every retailer treats every return as a crime, because often it really is. I do wonder where the line is, though. I didn't have a PS3 growing up, but I wanted to play Uncharted and a few other games when I was in High School. Game rentals were long gone by then, much less console rentals—but I realized that Gamestop had a 7-day return policy on used hardware. So one year, during spring break, I bought a used PS3 and copies of Uncharted 2 and 3. I didn't manage to finish the latter in time, but I still enjoyed myself. I am to this day convinced I did nothing wrong. The console was used both before and after purchase, and I took good care of the hardware and followed the written return policy. And in the process, I bought multiple non-returnable games from the store. But I was definitely taking advantage of the return policy, since I had no intention of holding on to the console.
- Cd00d 6y ago
  I think you're good. Gamestop was never on the high end of the integrity debate. "oh you have a game that was $60 12 months ago? Here's $2 and I'll put that on the shelf for $57"
  - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
    But that doesn't seem like a great way to make decisions, right? "It's okay to screw over this store because I don't like Other Thing X that they're doing."

StavrosK 6y ago

I have a friend who regularly buys items on Amazon, uses them for a couple of years and then returns them just before the warranty expires because of "dead pixels" or some other excuse, and gets a full refund.

milankragujevic 6y ago
That is so mean. Meanwhile I got a new Galaxy S9+ (not in USA obv.) which was broken from day 1 and couldn't get it replaced without suing the store and that would take years. I had to get a brand new phone serviced instead (battery, motherboard). And maybe it wasn't water resistant anymore after being opened. World isn't fair. :(
crististm 6y ago
find better friends
Spivak 6y ago
There are some products that are so unreliable that I have zero sympathy for the company that's reaping what they sow with the warranty. I have a personal electric heater that has a two year warranty but refuses to last a winter. Like it just sits in my bedroom living a cushy life as far as heaters go. But I'm on my 3rd replacement and they keep re-upping the warranty and so I'll probably get a new one every year at this point.
stordoff 6y ago
I'm not surprised this can be abused - I emailed Amazon a few years ago about a pair of headphones asking if they could do anything as the manufacturer wouldn't honour the warranty (part of the serial number was illegible IIRC), 18 months after purchase (they had a two year warranty). I was expecting them to, at best, send a replacement. They sent me a full refund before I'd even sent the item back, even though the price of the item had dropped in the mean time.
- StavrosK 6y ago
  I had the same thing happen with a Canon 50mm lens, I was starting out with photography and thought I was just bad, until I realized two years later that the lens would not focus properly, and never did. After testing it, I told Amazon, and they asked me to send the lens back and sent me a full refund. In my case, the product was legitimately broken ever since I bought it, but I dislike people abusing the system.

mbajkowski 6y ago

Used to work at Computer City in the mid 90s. It was not always that easy to verify if you had the right product in the box even when opening a returned item, especially if you were not familiar with the product being returned. Looking things up on the internet was not always possible / slow. Every store did have a shrink wrap machine which were used nightly. Hard to say how many improperly returned products were resold back then, or even how many goods may have been repackaged in the back warehouse on reception before ever hitting the floor.