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Regardless of the pros and cons of letting the intelligence agencies have some kind of moderating role on social media, they take a lot of pretty weird position
by tolien 6y ago
Regardless of the pros and cons of letting the intelligence agencies have some kind of moderating role on social media, they take a lot of pretty weird positions (not helped that they were previously accused of distributing disinformation for the KGB [1]). Their thesis seems to be:
* the report doesn't provide enough evidence that there are any bots (despite both Twitter and Facebook claiming to have removed thousands of bot accounts)
* the report doesn't do enough to assert that any bots, if they exist, are Russian in origin (despite the known existence of e.g. the Internet Research Agency)
* if there were bots, they weren't effective at manipulating elections/referenda
> Because despite near-constant braying from some corners of public life, the idea that Russia sustains prolonged, successful disinformation operations with the power to swing elections rests on a shaky evidence base.
Part of the problem is that we don't (and arguably can't) know if they affected elections/referenda but we do know there's been attempts by Russian-backed criminals to access data owned by political campaigns in the US and France [2]. Were they doing that just for fun?
We do know that in, for example, the US elections, some counties/states swung for Trump in 2016 by pretty narrow margins. Were those affected more by "but her emails", some sort of disinformation campaign, or the general unpopularity of Clinton? Maybe all of the above but it's a stretch to dismiss it all.
> This was the Robert Mueller inquiry, which didn’t turn up any evidence that Russia colluded with Trump to influence the outcome of the election.
Well no, they didn't find evidence of direct collusion, but it also concluded that they'd have indicted Trump for conspiracy to obstruct justice if he weren't PotUS [3].
> There’s also the important point that the upcoming generation is far savvier at discerning ‘fake news’ or ‘disinformation’ than older generations. All of this begs the question, how much of a threat is so-called disinformation really?
We know that older generations are more inclined to turn out and vote [4], so where is this going?
If upcoming generations are better able to distinguish 'fake news' then do we need to prevent the older people who aren't from voting?
1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Statesman#After_Kingsley_Martin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Statesman#After_Kingsley_M...
2: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-39705062 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-39705062
3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mueller_Report#Episodes_of_alleged_obstruction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mueller_Report#Episodes_of_all...
4: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/insights/general-election-2019-turnout/ https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/insights/general-electi...
- harry8 6y ago>We do know that in, for example, the US elections, some counties/states swung for Trump in 2016 by pretty narrow margins. Were those affected more by "but her emails", some sort of disinformation campaign, or the general unpopularity of Clinton? Maybe all of the above but it's a stretch to dismiss it all That which is asserted without evidence can and must be dismissed without evidence. "Drain the swamp" was the most effective political slogan for many decades. It's a real shame Trump was not better than Clinton's corruption and neither will Joe be. The corruption is the biggest threat to the USA for so many reasons.
- tolien 6y ago> That which is asserted without evidence can and must be dismissed without evidence. TFA provides evidence for nothing, so I guess we just dismiss it all then? My point was how do you even begin to assess to what extent slogans, disinformation campaigns, apathy towards either candidate or some other factor was effective in swinging the result? Demanding proof that disinformation moved the result even a little verges on ludicrous.
- harry8 6y ago>Demanding proof that disinformation moved the result even a little verges on ludicrous. Got some weapons of mass destruction over there. Just keep up the "evidence is ludicrous" We'll need that to get the power to do more of what's right and get it past the population, like the unqualified success invading Iraq has unquestionably been. Or should we not take WMD on trust forever? If you're not asking for evidence when people are justifying power grabs with bogeyman stories, then when exactly should we?
- tolien 6y agoI mean, the claim that Iraq had WMDs didn't change anyone's mind about invading because it was prima facie nonsense, right? Unless you have direct evidence that the claim was both accepted as true and moved the needle on sentiment regarding the invasion? Maybe everyone was just in favour of getting shot of Saddam because, like, "drain the swamp [beside the Euphrates]"?