5 ms·

I wonder if softbank sees the writing on the wall here. Yea they want cash but ARM is rapidly coming under fire from the open source RISC-V architecture. ARM

I wonder if softbank sees the writing on the wall here. Yea they want cash but ARM is rapidly coming under fire from the open source RISC-V architecture. ARM's licencing model in particular is steering people away from their offerings in new designs and I think they're pretty much at peak value right now with Apple's adoption of their architecture. I know there aren't tons of news articles about new high performance chips being offered but where I work we are seeing a ridiculous level of interest from other companies particularly given our industry...

sitkack 6y ago
I am a huge RISC-V fan, like Cathy Bates level, but there is so much that ARM can do over the next 5,10,15 years but it looks like they are incapable of the required transformations. Everything that is good about RISC-V is already at ARM's disposal. Currently it looks like SiFive was borne out of a solution for the organizational issues that plague innovator's dilemma companies. I am envious of SiFive's position right now. I hope they don't get swallowed by a dinosaur. The only reason NVidia wants ARM is because they can't have an x86 license. Apple doesn't care because they probably have an escape/hedge clause on their ARM license and they will soon be shipping an IR. They have ISA hopped so many times it is old hat to them.
- dividedbyzero 6y ago
  What is an IR?
  - moreati 6y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermediate_representation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermediate_representation
- mtgx 6y ago
  Sure, but whether Arm remains with a cash-starved Softbank or is sold for tens of billions of dollars to a company like Nvidia, it seems inevitable that royalties for their licenses will drastically increase in the near-to-medium future. And this will inevitably open the market for RISC-V chips. I mean, this is already the case, when Arm licenses are still very reasonable, just on a much slower trend/adoption rate. Once license costs rise to 4x or more, I expect RISC-V adoption rate to grow by at least as much, too. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-softbank-group-arm-exclusive/exclusive-arm-raises-prices-on-chip-technology-for-some-customers-sources-say-idUSKCN24G1RM https://www.reuters.com/article/us-softbank-group-arm-exclus...
gaze 6y ago
I'm curious if ARM sees RISC-V as serious competition. I'm under the impression that the instruction set makes efficient and performant implementations rather difficult.
- ljhsiung 6y ago
  My personal view is that, for the next few years, no. There are some pretty critical features that RISCV is missing that makes ARM what it is today and so very prolific in your phones and desktops and even, recently, servers. Many hypervisor or virtualization and to some extent security extensions just aren't there for RISC-V, and on top of that, the software ecosystem isn't really all there yet for high performance. Currently though, RISC-V already is ingrained heavily in the embedded and IoT space and growing astronomically. That's where ARM is losing heavily, although in my opinion, the embedded space wasn't the money maker anyways for ARM
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
jagger27 6y ago
I don’t know if this is right. The money seems to be in customized Arm-based chips for now and I think for quite a while still. Apple and Nuvia might take Arm to crazy new levels with their customizations but all their chips will still be Arm at their core, which seems to be a pretty nice place to be in for SoftBank. Surely once Apple blows the doors off everything else more new licensees will follow, no? I think Arm has a lot of growth left in it, even if RISC-V takes off.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

sitkack 6y ago

I am a huge RISC-V fan, like Cathy Bates level, but there is so much that ARM can do over the next 5,10,15 years but it looks like they are incapable of the required transformations. Everything that is good about RISC-V is already at ARM's disposal. Currently it looks like SiFive was borne out of a solution for the organizational issues that plague innovator's dilemma companies. I am envious of SiFive's position right now. I hope they don't get swallowed by a dinosaur. The only reason NVidia wants ARM is because they can't have an x86 license. Apple doesn't care because they probably have an escape/hedge clause on their ARM license and they will soon be shipping an IR. They have ISA hopped so many times it is old hat to them.

dividedbyzero 6y ago
What is an IR?
- moreati 6y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermediate_representation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermediate_representation
mtgx 6y ago
Sure, but whether Arm remains with a cash-starved Softbank or is sold for tens of billions of dollars to a company like Nvidia, it seems inevitable that royalties for their licenses will drastically increase in the near-to-medium future. And this will inevitably open the market for RISC-V chips. I mean, this is already the case, when Arm licenses are still very reasonable, just on a much slower trend/adoption rate. Once license costs rise to 4x or more, I expect RISC-V adoption rate to grow by at least as much, too. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-softbank-group-arm-exclusive/exclusive-arm-raises-prices-on-chip-technology-for-some-customers-sources-say-idUSKCN24G1RM https://www.reuters.com/article/us-softbank-group-arm-exclus...

gaze 6y ago

I'm curious if ARM sees RISC-V as serious competition. I'm under the impression that the instruction set makes efficient and performant implementations rather difficult.

ljhsiung 6y ago
My personal view is that, for the next few years, no. There are some pretty critical features that RISCV is missing that makes ARM what it is today and so very prolific in your phones and desktops and even, recently, servers. Many hypervisor or virtualization and to some extent security extensions just aren't there for RISC-V, and on top of that, the software ecosystem isn't really all there yet for high performance. Currently though, RISC-V already is ingrained heavily in the embedded and IoT space and growing astronomically. That's where ARM is losing heavily, although in my opinion, the embedded space wasn't the money maker anyways for ARM
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

jagger27 6y ago

I don’t know if this is right. The money seems to be in customized Arm-based chips for now and I think for quite a while still. Apple and Nuvia might take Arm to crazy new levels with their customizations but all their chips will still be Arm at their core, which seems to be a pretty nice place to be in for SoftBank. Surely once Apple blows the doors off everything else more new licensees will follow, no? I think Arm has a lot of growth left in it, even if RISC-V takes off.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]