6 ms·

Twitter Kills The #Dickbar

115 points by pitdesi 16y ago

muppetman 16y ago
Good on them for admitting wrong on this and backing down. Blindly forging ahead when it was universally hated was never going to do them any favours. Many a good blog post has been written about what they could do to make it better, hopefully some of that feedback will find its way into whatever they do next.
- grandalf 16y ago
  True. I don't think anyone begrudges Twitter the ability to put ads into the mobile app. Why not just put trending items between "pages" when the user scrolls through tweets, each one about the height of a tweet? (one per page so that it's not too overwhelming)
  - jinushaun 16y ago
    That's how Tweetie originally worked on the Mac and everyone was fine with it. The Dickbar was a bad idea because it laid on top of everything.
r00k 16y ago
This seems to be a great example of one of the challenges with iOS apps: you can't do a limited roll-out of new features. If Twitter could have deployed the bar to a hundred or so real users, I think they would have quickly found that people mostly hated it. I believe you're allowed to distribute test versions of your app to 6-ish handsets for testing, but I'm sure this barely covers the internal folks at Twitter. It'd be nice if they'd had the option to do some more thorough early testing. (Whether they would have done so, or would have listened to the results is outside my point).
- mrkurt 16y ago
  It's harder to do limited roll outs, but not impossible. It's feasible to have all the code in place and only trigger it based on a server response, for instance. That's basically how they handle the web app.
  - jonknee 16y ago
    How does that work with the App Store approval process? I could see that also being a strategy to try and sneak stuff past Apple.
    - ianferrel 16y ago
      The same way that testing apps with Easter eggs works. You have to tell Apple that the feature exists, and let them test it. If you don't, and they find out after approval, you run the risk of getting your app pulled.
      - jrockway 16y ago
        Would Apple really pull the official Twitter app? It seems highly unlikely, because Twitter has leverage over Apple's users. People won't switch to some other short message sharing service, they'll switch to a non-Apple phone.
        statictype 16y ago
        The iPhone was popular before the existing Twitter client existed. There are also lots of good 3rd party Twitter clients for the iPhone. People won't switch to some other short message sharing service, they'll switch to a non-Apple phone. Nah, they'll probably use the web UI or some other native client that supports Twitter.
- cletus 16y ago
  You can install iOS dev apps on way more handsets than that. The installers simply need your certificate/profile. As for a limited rollout, they could've rolled a new binary and only turned on the feature for, say, 100 users selected at random.
  - kbutler 16y ago
    > As for a limited rollout, they could've rolled a new binary and only turned on the feature for, say, 100 users selected at random. Be careful with this - developers have previously gotten into trouble for having functionality for users that differs from that for reviewers. You'd have to also add a way for the reviewers to review the "limited rollout" functionality.
    - ceejayoz 16y ago
      I believe standard practice in those situations would be to give them two test user accounts in your app store submission - "log in with EnabledTest, then with DisabledTest".
- davidu 16y ago
  Of course you can do limited roll-outs of new features. You just put it in a feature flag. The app can check w/ Twitter if that user has the flag enabled. More on Feature Flags: http://code.flickr.com/blog/2009/12/02/flipping-out/ http://code.flickr.com/blog/2009/12/02/flipping-out/ -David
younata 16y ago
So, I guess this means I can finally go update my twitter client.
- wtn 16y ago
  Ha—not yet, it doesn't drop until later today!
  - younata 16y ago
    I just did an update, and I don't have the dickbar.
yuvadam 16y ago
Twitter is experiencing what I believe is a much larger issue with today's platforms. You cannot attract a mass of users, give them a nice UX, build a community - and then one day throw ads all over to place, call it a monetization strategy and keep a straight face. Twitter is going to have a very hard time monetizing their platform, if the #Dickbar is the best they came up with at this point. If I were them, I would be afraid.
- neilc 16y ago
  You cannot attract a mass of users, give them a nice UX, build a community - and then one day throw ads all over to place, call it a monetization strategy and keep a straight face. Really? Google did essentially that to great success, as has Facebook (perhaps with less clear-cut success, but clearly not to the sort of outrage Twitter received over the QuickBar).
  - jerf 16y ago
    This is going to sound like a nit, but it's actually a critical point: Google did not throw ads all over the place, at least with regards to their search results. They carefully introduced them on the sidebar, clearly labeled, and have made further motions since, all also carefully considered and clearly labeled. They are also tied to the user search and therefore actively connected to what the user is currently trying to do, making them even have some value to the consumer as well as the advertiser. This is not the last-ditch pray & spray approach that your quote is implicitly referring to. Twitter can still get some context out of the user but they will forever have the problem that most of their ad impressions will not be connected to the user actively searching for something. Google's an advertising monster for a reason, and it's not as simple as "They had a big bully pulpit in the form of their search engine".
  - ry0ohki 16y ago
    Exactly, I think the main difference is using the old "how to cook a frog" analogy. You can't just throw a frog in boiling water, but if you turn up the heat slowly he'll be happy. Twitter went from no ads to AN INTRUSIVE AD YOU CANT ESCAPE AND RUINED YOUR NORMAL EXPERIENCE. Google on the other hand went with very low touch text ads, then added ads to your email etc... such that there are a lot more ads on Google now then there were, but it was done so gradually and with so much A/B testing that we care less.
flipside 16y ago
A painful but necessary decision for twitter, I know they need to monetize their service but alienating users in a way that becomes a meme is the wrong way to go. I fully expect some version of #dickbar to be back someday once they've worked out the technology for showing relevant updates, they just tried to implement it before its time. I guarantee you that by next year there will be a way to do this right.
catshirt 16y ago
"Business Insider reported that the Dickbar was a mistake in the first place, having been developed by a junior product manager with no senior oversight." and it made its way into a release? huh?
- ceejayoz 16y ago
  Two releases, even.
- mcantelon 16y ago
  That sounds highly doubtful to me.
  - koolaidavoider 16y ago
    Yeah, it's definitely classic scapegoating. The fact that it was mentioned makes them seem a bit petty...
    - ceejayoz 16y ago
      That and the "lots of people used it! really!" I suspect the "junior product manager"'s name is Richard Bahr.
emullet 16y ago
I felt if they had made it an optional item in the settings they would have avoided the backlash, and they would still be generating money off of it. The fact it was not optional, then they announced limited API access for developers whipped everyone into a frenzy.
blhack 16y ago
Good. I hope I never, ever have to read the word "dickbar" ever again. That is one of the most ridiculously stupid attempts at being "hip" I've ever seen. "Dickbar"? What are we, 12 year old jersey-shore fans?
- rhizome 16y ago
  For you, possibly. For everyone else, "dick" refers to Dick Costolo.
  - mberning 16y ago
    Thanks for the clarification. I agree with the OP though that the name is still ridiculous. Why not just refer to it by its real name.
  - blhack 16y ago
    Oh, well then that makes sense, thanks :) (I've actually been wondering where the name came from, and asked a few times, but never got an answer. I assume that it was his idea, then?) To be honest, though, I spend a ton of time reading technology news, and had no idea who Dick Costolo was until right now, so I don't know that it's really safe to say "everybody". Perhaps Dorsey coming back is kindof "New Coke"?
  - jrockway 16y ago
    Would it be called the "jrockbar" if I created it? Unlikely. "dickbar" stuck because "dick" is a word with negative connotations that refers to the male anatomy. The fact that it's the guy's name simply makes for a cute cover story.
    - rhizome 16y ago
      I'm sure the entendre didn't escape the early proponents, you're right.
JCB_K 16y ago
"The bar was also seen as a potential means of in-app notifications for new @mentions, DMs, and other important activity." Raise your hand if you believe this.
grantlmiller 16y ago
so why isn't this headline: @Jack offed the #dickbar ?
donnyg107 16y ago
The real difference I see between google and twitter is space and focus. Google had room on their clean results pages to place ads, and they also had users that were used to skimming and overlooking a lot of the text on the page anyway. Ads were not a huge problem for google. Twitter's app users don't have the space on their feeds for a few square centimeters of ad space, especially because we don't skim and skip over tweets (unless they look like the have lots of @s and #s). Tweets are like prepackaged feelings already. Someone who barely read tweets would have nothing left to intake. Twitter needs to find a way to place ads without taking up space or annoying reading time. That, or find a place on the page which doesn't LOOK like its taking up space. Meaning, if the bottom cm is always an ad, it isn't dropping down into my tweets. I just have a slightly smaller screen, which I will acclimate to quickly and won't annoy me regularly. Also, the ads can be more expensive that way. Put the ads on the screen all the time, not just some of the time, and they won't impede upon my twitter space, they'll sit within twitter's ad space.
dr_ 16y ago
I'm a little surprised that they removed the revised version of the bar. I found some of the topics listed there interesting. Seems like they responded to the technorati rather than what would best serve their needs along with their users. Facebook made changes all the time - and then people would start organizing groups on facebook opposed to the changes. But eventually the users adapted and all was forgotten. I suppose one option is to move the bar to just the search area, where people are willfully looking for particular types of information.

115 points by pitdesi 16y ago

Good on them for admitting wrong on this and backing down. Blindly forging ahead when it was universally hated was never going to do them any favours. Many a good blog post has been written about what they could do to make it better, hopefully some of that feedback will find its way into whatever they do next.

grandalf 16y ago
True. I don't think anyone begrudges Twitter the ability to put ads into the mobile app. Why not just put trending items between "pages" when the user scrolls through tweets, each one about the height of a tweet? (one per page so that it's not too overwhelming)
- jinushaun 16y ago
  That's how Tweetie originally worked on the Mac and everyone was fine with it. The Dickbar was a bad idea because it laid on top of everything.

r00k 16y ago

This seems to be a great example of one of the challenges with iOS apps: you can't do a limited roll-out of new features. If Twitter could have deployed the bar to a hundred or so real users, I think they would have quickly found that people mostly hated it. I believe you're allowed to distribute test versions of your app to 6-ish handsets for testing, but I'm sure this barely covers the internal folks at Twitter. It'd be nice if they'd had the option to do some more thorough early testing. (Whether they would have done so, or would have listened to the results is outside my point).

mrkurt 16y ago
It's harder to do limited roll outs, but not impossible. It's feasible to have all the code in place and only trigger it based on a server response, for instance. That's basically how they handle the web app.
- jonknee 16y ago
  How does that work with the App Store approval process? I could see that also being a strategy to try and sneak stuff past Apple.
  - ianferrel 16y ago
    The same way that testing apps with Easter eggs works. You have to tell Apple that the feature exists, and let them test it. If you don't, and they find out after approval, you run the risk of getting your app pulled.
    - jrockway 16y ago
      Would Apple really pull the official Twitter app? It seems highly unlikely, because Twitter has leverage over Apple's users. People won't switch to some other short message sharing service, they'll switch to a non-Apple phone.
      - statictype 16y ago
        The iPhone was popular before the existing Twitter client existed. There are also lots of good 3rd party Twitter clients for the iPhone. People won't switch to some other short message sharing service, they'll switch to a non-Apple phone. Nah, they'll probably use the web UI or some other native client that supports Twitter.
cletus 16y ago
You can install iOS dev apps on way more handsets than that. The installers simply need your certificate/profile. As for a limited rollout, they could've rolled a new binary and only turned on the feature for, say, 100 users selected at random.
- kbutler 16y ago
  > As for a limited rollout, they could've rolled a new binary and only turned on the feature for, say, 100 users selected at random. Be careful with this - developers have previously gotten into trouble for having functionality for users that differs from that for reviewers. You'd have to also add a way for the reviewers to review the "limited rollout" functionality.
  - ceejayoz 16y ago
    I believe standard practice in those situations would be to give them two test user accounts in your app store submission - "log in with EnabledTest, then with DisabledTest".
davidu 16y ago
Of course you can do limited roll-outs of new features. You just put it in a feature flag. The app can check w/ Twitter if that user has the flag enabled. More on Feature Flags: http://code.flickr.com/blog/2009/12/02/flipping-out/ http://code.flickr.com/blog/2009/12/02/flipping-out/ -David

younata 16y ago

So, I guess this means I can finally go update my twitter client.

wtn 16y ago
Ha—not yet, it doesn't drop until later today!
- younata 16y ago
  I just did an update, and I don't have the dickbar.

yuvadam 16y ago

Twitter is experiencing what I believe is a much larger issue with today's platforms. You cannot attract a mass of users, give them a nice UX, build a community - and then one day throw ads all over to place, call it a monetization strategy and keep a straight face. Twitter is going to have a very hard time monetizing their platform, if the #Dickbar is the best they came up with at this point. If I were them, I would be afraid.

neilc 16y ago
You cannot attract a mass of users, give them a nice UX, build a community - and then one day throw ads all over to place, call it a monetization strategy and keep a straight face. Really? Google did essentially that to great success, as has Facebook (perhaps with less clear-cut success, but clearly not to the sort of outrage Twitter received over the QuickBar).
- jerf 16y ago
  This is going to sound like a nit, but it's actually a critical point: Google did not throw ads all over the place, at least with regards to their search results. They carefully introduced them on the sidebar, clearly labeled, and have made further motions since, all also carefully considered and clearly labeled. They are also tied to the user search and therefore actively connected to what the user is currently trying to do, making them even have some value to the consumer as well as the advertiser. This is not the last-ditch pray & spray approach that your quote is implicitly referring to. Twitter can still get some context out of the user but they will forever have the problem that most of their ad impressions will not be connected to the user actively searching for something. Google's an advertising monster for a reason, and it's not as simple as "They had a big bully pulpit in the form of their search engine".
- ry0ohki 16y ago
  Exactly, I think the main difference is using the old "how to cook a frog" analogy. You can't just throw a frog in boiling water, but if you turn up the heat slowly he'll be happy. Twitter went from no ads to AN INTRUSIVE AD YOU CANT ESCAPE AND RUINED YOUR NORMAL EXPERIENCE. Google on the other hand went with very low touch text ads, then added ads to your email etc... such that there are a lot more ads on Google now then there were, but it was done so gradually and with so much A/B testing that we care less.

flipside 16y ago

A painful but necessary decision for twitter, I know they need to monetize their service but alienating users in a way that becomes a meme is the wrong way to go. I fully expect some version of #dickbar to be back someday once they've worked out the technology for showing relevant updates, they just tried to implement it before its time. I guarantee you that by next year there will be a way to do this right.

catshirt 16y ago

"Business Insider reported that the Dickbar was a mistake in the first place, having been developed by a junior product manager with no senior oversight." and it made its way into a release? huh?

ceejayoz 16y ago
Two releases, even.
mcantelon 16y ago
That sounds highly doubtful to me.
- koolaidavoider 16y ago
  Yeah, it's definitely classic scapegoating. The fact that it was mentioned makes them seem a bit petty...
  - ceejayoz 16y ago
    That and the "lots of people used it! really!" I suspect the "junior product manager"'s name is Richard Bahr.

emullet 16y ago

I felt if they had made it an optional item in the settings they would have avoided the backlash, and they would still be generating money off of it. The fact it was not optional, then they announced limited API access for developers whipped everyone into a frenzy.

blhack 16y ago

Good. I hope I never, ever have to read the word "dickbar" ever again. That is one of the most ridiculously stupid attempts at being "hip" I've ever seen. "Dickbar"? What are we, 12 year old jersey-shore fans?

rhizome 16y ago
For you, possibly. For everyone else, "dick" refers to Dick Costolo.
- mberning 16y ago
  Thanks for the clarification. I agree with the OP though that the name is still ridiculous. Why not just refer to it by its real name.
- blhack 16y ago
  Oh, well then that makes sense, thanks :) (I've actually been wondering where the name came from, and asked a few times, but never got an answer. I assume that it was his idea, then?) To be honest, though, I spend a ton of time reading technology news, and had no idea who Dick Costolo was until right now, so I don't know that it's really safe to say "everybody". Perhaps Dorsey coming back is kindof "New Coke"?
- jrockway 16y ago
  Would it be called the "jrockbar" if I created it? Unlikely. "dickbar" stuck because "dick" is a word with negative connotations that refers to the male anatomy. The fact that it's the guy's name simply makes for a cute cover story.
  - rhizome 16y ago
    I'm sure the entendre didn't escape the early proponents, you're right.

JCB_K 16y ago

"The bar was also seen as a potential means of in-app notifications for new @mentions, DMs, and other important activity." Raise your hand if you believe this.

grantlmiller 16y ago

so why isn't this headline: @Jack offed the #dickbar ?

donnyg107 16y ago

The real difference I see between google and twitter is space and focus. Google had room on their clean results pages to place ads, and they also had users that were used to skimming and overlooking a lot of the text on the page anyway. Ads were not a huge problem for google. Twitter's app users don't have the space on their feeds for a few square centimeters of ad space, especially because we don't skim and skip over tweets (unless they look like the have lots of @s and #s). Tweets are like prepackaged feelings already. Someone who barely read tweets would have nothing left to intake. Twitter needs to find a way to place ads without taking up space or annoying reading time. That, or find a place on the page which doesn't LOOK like its taking up space. Meaning, if the bottom cm is always an ad, it isn't dropping down into my tweets. I just have a slightly smaller screen, which I will acclimate to quickly and won't annoy me regularly. Also, the ads can be more expensive that way. Put the ads on the screen all the time, not just some of the time, and they won't impede upon my twitter space, they'll sit within twitter's ad space.

dr_ 16y ago

I'm a little surprised that they removed the revised version of the bar. I found some of the topics listed there interesting. Seems like they responded to the technorati rather than what would best serve their needs along with their users. Facebook made changes all the time - and then people would start organizing groups on facebook opposed to the changes. But eventually the users adapted and all was forgotten. I suppose one option is to move the bar to just the search area, where people are willfully looking for particular types of information.