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> If you're stuck at home you might as well study. Exactly. It's a good opportunity for self directed study. I would spend time doing something productive, no

> If you're stuck at home you might as well study. Exactly. It's a good opportunity for self directed study. I would spend time doing something productive, not traveling.

wutbrodo 6y ago
Self-directed study is challenging, especially for 17 year-olds that don't have anyone (eg parents) who are in tune enough with autodidactism to guide them. One of the biggest advantages of college for me was realizing how much there was to learn and how easy it was to do it (after skating through all of my schooling with straight As), and I only really refined my autodidactic abilities in my mid-20s.
- game_the0ry 6y ago
  > Self-directed study is challenging Fair point, but that's because students are not encouraged to learn what they are interested in.
  - astura 6y ago
    Or they literally don't know how to learn what they are interested in? I went into computer science as a major because I was interested in computers. College was literally the only way I was able to learn because I didn't know anything about getting started - I didn't know what a programming language was, for example, so I wouldn't know to learn to program. I grew up poor and my public education was very substandard. College allowed me to get past that, I couldn't imagine trying to do it myself with literally zero guidance. I know some of you are just so smart you don't need college - but please consider there's a vast about of us plebs that do.
    - Grimm1 6y ago
      Google "Careers in computers", followed by how to learn <one of the 18 that pop up in the top list> then click on any of the resources and get to it. I'm very much not a fan of the kind of "learned helplessness" being displayed in this comment and getting started in something like this is trivial with the amount of resources available right now. It's really not that hard to get started learning and college doesn't really prepare you for these jobs anyway so if that was your reason for going I think you wasted a lot of money.
      - ghaff 6y ago
        I'd agree that "computers" is almost certainly not the best example. Self-teaching how to program is probably one of the easiest topics to jump into out there. And it has the benefit that, if you're really pretty sure you want to major in computer science (which may or may not actually be the best choice for someone who is just "interested in computers") learning how to at least program and doing some projects, etc. is one area of self-study that will be very valuable when you start university. As has been discussed here at length before, for better or worse, good university computer science curricula tend to assume you know your way around a computer and can program--or you have to get up to speed very quickly on the side.
      - nitrogen 6y ago
        I'm very much not a fan of the kind of "learned helplessness" Someone coming from a community where there are literally zero engineers or programmers will be very lucky if they even know what words to look for. We can't search for what we don't even know exists. On the flip side people don't know what they do know, in the sense that assumed common knowledge might not actually be common. I was lucky that I had a parent who was a teacher, at a time when textbooks started including simple BASIC programs to demonstrate concepts. I was also lucky to have access to a safe and clean public library as a kid, that happened to have a couple of shelves with computer books.
        astura 6y ago
        This is exactly right - the only community I grew up in had zero engineers, zero computer professionals, and even zero white collar employees.
        Grimm1 6y ago
        No one in my family is an engineer, no family friends nothing. I searched I want to make a game when I was 11, the rest is history. I stand by what I say, even more so after reading this reply.
      - astura 6y ago
        Good for you, it's great that you are smart enough to know how to do that, but I was much too dumb and needed college (you don't think I tried to prepare myself for college beforehand?? I certainly tried to learn everything I could before I started). Of course, I started school nearly two decades ago where information was more difficult to find and less available, so it might be easier for most people now, but there's still idiots like me. Searching for information online and separating the wheat from the chaff is a skill - one I largely learned in college. I don't take that skill for granted, I see my husband and parents struggling greatly searching for information that's trivial to find (you just gotta know how to find it). Yet I don't tell them they have "learned helplessness" and its just so easy. You have to understand, I literally didn't know a single person who even knew how to use a computer - it took me months of playing around with the computer to even figure out how to access the world wide web at first. I knew it existed, I knew we had internet and a computer so I should be able to access it, but didn't know anything else. I was so excited when I finally figured it out. >college doesn't really prepare you for these jobs anyway Yes it absolutely does, mine did.
  - hotcrossbunny 6y ago
    Also the self direction is neither taught nor encouraged in the existing model of education
  - wutbrodo 6y ago
    Right, but in the absence of parents who are capable of guiding them, they won't be able to either. Most adults arent good at being autodidacts either.
- ghaff 6y ago
  And even if they are tuned into autodidactism, self-study is not really an outcome in and of itself. So I pick some topic and topics to self-study for a year while staying with my parents. Maybe I get some part-time job. Maybe I even get fairly deep into some generally useful topic. Now what when I enter university the following year? There are probably some core subjects I could usefully have studied. But, in general, I'm probably not going to place out of classes at many schools even if I've deliberately studied for AP tests. So it's not obvious that year of self-study necessarily leads to a shortened or improved degree program. That's not a reason not to do it of course. But self-study doesn't necessarily lead to greater personal enrichment than volunteering or hiking the Appalachian Trail does.
briandear 6y ago
Traveling can be incredibly productive; they aren’t mutually exclusive.
- ghaff 6y ago
  The problem is that traveling is very challenging right now. It's a lousy situation. Paying for a year of school is a lousy option right now, a typical gap year with travel/activities is tough, and employment options are very limited. I guess if I were an incoming senior, I'd do my best to wrap things up and get a diploma this year--one school I know is basically letting only seniors among undergrads back on campus in the fall with the message to wrap up whatever they need to do in-person to graduate and plan to be online in the spring. For anyone else, if I were in a position to deal with it financially, I'd take a year off and spend it as usefully/enjoyably as I could.

> If you're stuck at home you might as well study. Exactly. It's a good opportunity for self directed study. I would spend time doing something productive, not traveling.

wutbrodo 6y ago

Self-directed study is challenging, especially for 17 year-olds that don't have anyone (eg parents) who are in tune enough with autodidactism to guide them. One of the biggest advantages of college for me was realizing how much there was to learn and how easy it was to do it (after skating through all of my schooling with straight As), and I only really refined my autodidactic abilities in my mid-20s.

game_the0ry 6y ago
> Self-directed study is challenging Fair point, but that's because students are not encouraged to learn what they are interested in.
- astura 6y ago
  Or they literally don't know how to learn what they are interested in? I went into computer science as a major because I was interested in computers. College was literally the only way I was able to learn because I didn't know anything about getting started - I didn't know what a programming language was, for example, so I wouldn't know to learn to program. I grew up poor and my public education was very substandard. College allowed me to get past that, I couldn't imagine trying to do it myself with literally zero guidance. I know some of you are just so smart you don't need college - but please consider there's a vast about of us plebs that do.
  - Grimm1 6y ago
    Google "Careers in computers", followed by how to learn <one of the 18 that pop up in the top list> then click on any of the resources and get to it. I'm very much not a fan of the kind of "learned helplessness" being displayed in this comment and getting started in something like this is trivial with the amount of resources available right now. It's really not that hard to get started learning and college doesn't really prepare you for these jobs anyway so if that was your reason for going I think you wasted a lot of money.
    - ghaff 6y ago
      I'd agree that "computers" is almost certainly not the best example. Self-teaching how to program is probably one of the easiest topics to jump into out there. And it has the benefit that, if you're really pretty sure you want to major in computer science (which may or may not actually be the best choice for someone who is just "interested in computers") learning how to at least program and doing some projects, etc. is one area of self-study that will be very valuable when you start university. As has been discussed here at length before, for better or worse, good university computer science curricula tend to assume you know your way around a computer and can program--or you have to get up to speed very quickly on the side.
    - nitrogen 6y ago
      I'm very much not a fan of the kind of "learned helplessness" Someone coming from a community where there are literally zero engineers or programmers will be very lucky if they even know what words to look for. We can't search for what we don't even know exists. On the flip side people don't know what they do know, in the sense that assumed common knowledge might not actually be common. I was lucky that I had a parent who was a teacher, at a time when textbooks started including simple BASIC programs to demonstrate concepts. I was also lucky to have access to a safe and clean public library as a kid, that happened to have a couple of shelves with computer books.
      - astura 6y ago
        This is exactly right - the only community I grew up in had zero engineers, zero computer professionals, and even zero white collar employees.
      - Grimm1 6y ago
        No one in my family is an engineer, no family friends nothing. I searched I want to make a game when I was 11, the rest is history. I stand by what I say, even more so after reading this reply.
    - astura 6y ago
      Good for you, it's great that you are smart enough to know how to do that, but I was much too dumb and needed college (you don't think I tried to prepare myself for college beforehand?? I certainly tried to learn everything I could before I started). Of course, I started school nearly two decades ago where information was more difficult to find and less available, so it might be easier for most people now, but there's still idiots like me. Searching for information online and separating the wheat from the chaff is a skill - one I largely learned in college. I don't take that skill for granted, I see my husband and parents struggling greatly searching for information that's trivial to find (you just gotta know how to find it). Yet I don't tell them they have "learned helplessness" and its just so easy. You have to understand, I literally didn't know a single person who even knew how to use a computer - it took me months of playing around with the computer to even figure out how to access the world wide web at first. I knew it existed, I knew we had internet and a computer so I should be able to access it, but didn't know anything else. I was so excited when I finally figured it out. >college doesn't really prepare you for these jobs anyway Yes it absolutely does, mine did.
- hotcrossbunny 6y ago
  Also the self direction is neither taught nor encouraged in the existing model of education
- wutbrodo 6y ago
  Right, but in the absence of parents who are capable of guiding them, they won't be able to either. Most adults arent good at being autodidacts either.
ghaff 6y ago
And even if they are tuned into autodidactism, self-study is not really an outcome in and of itself. So I pick some topic and topics to self-study for a year while staying with my parents. Maybe I get some part-time job. Maybe I even get fairly deep into some generally useful topic. Now what when I enter university the following year? There are probably some core subjects I could usefully have studied. But, in general, I'm probably not going to place out of classes at many schools even if I've deliberately studied for AP tests. So it's not obvious that year of self-study necessarily leads to a shortened or improved degree program. That's not a reason not to do it of course. But self-study doesn't necessarily lead to greater personal enrichment than volunteering or hiking the Appalachian Trail does.

briandear 6y ago

Traveling can be incredibly productive; they aren’t mutually exclusive.

ghaff 6y ago
The problem is that traveling is very challenging right now. It's a lousy situation. Paying for a year of school is a lousy option right now, a typical gap year with travel/activities is tough, and employment options are very limited. I guess if I were an incoming senior, I'd do my best to wrap things up and get a diploma this year--one school I know is basically letting only seniors among undergrads back on campus in the fall with the message to wrap up whatever they need to do in-person to graduate and plan to be online in the spring. For anyone else, if I were in a position to deal with it financially, I'd take a year off and spend it as usefully/enjoyably as I could.