4 ms·

See? It's not so hard.

by newobj 6y ago

alienhuman 6y ago
...said the person when Hitler finally banned the dangerous and destructive Communists and then the Jews from public life. It’s amazing how few people understand the implications of banning people from public life. They think it’s easy and can’t understand why anyone would object. Total ignorance of history resulting in a total lack of awareness. If you think something as vital as free speech and censorship are simple and “not so hard” this is a good sign you’re missing something huge. In general, if you can’t convincingly argue the other side, you’re not sufficiently intelligent or informed and should educate yourself or refrain from advocating your clueless point of view.
- joshuamorton 6y ago
  Please don't compare banning people from twitter and exterminating Jews. The two aren't comparable.
  - allarm 6y ago
    They are though. Please don’t deny that. The two are comparable.
    - joshuamorton 6y ago
      I can't tell if you're being needlessly pedantic, but to clarify: no there are no similarities between the holocaust and getting banned from twitter. The two situations aren't similar, and comparing them is disgusting and shows a lack of empathy for people who have faced actual persecution. Sure, you can write the words that compare them. No, you should not.
      - allarm 6y ago
        The fact that you, young liberals, are praising censorship whenever it suits your agenda, amuses me. It’s only a matter of time before you start burning books. You already do that, in fact.
        dang 6y ago
        Please don't do ideological flamewar on HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - TearsInTheRain 6y ago
    I feel like this is a false comparison. Hitler did plenty of shitty things to the jews before exterminating them. Can we compare this to Hitler banning jews from civil service? The point of both is to marginalize a class of people those in positions of power find undesirable.
    - joshuamorton 6y ago
      Twitter isn't the government. Nor are QAnon-conspiracy-theorists comparable to <an ethnic or religious minority group>. So no. You could, however compare Hitler banning the Jews from civil service to Trump creating new guidelines that ban trans-women from shelters. That is a government action to marginalize a class of people those in positions of power find undesirable.
      - TearsInTheRain 6y ago
        Twitter might not be the government but it surely is an institution that has a significant amount of power and influence on society. So much so that I think the public should pressure them to adhere to liberal values like free speech and rightly get upset if they dont. And regarding the fact that conspiracy theorists arent an ethnic group, sure thats right they are not. They are still an ideological group. Are we committed to making a society that works for a diverse range of ideological groups or do we have to fit inside the box of what Jack Dorsey thinks is normal to participate in society? I think the american value of right to pursue happens means powerful institutions should be extremely careful before judging some group as not being normal or fit for society. Or I guess we can give up these values because now we dont like the results.
        joshuamorton 6y ago
        Twitter isn't going to shoot you. Twitter isn't going to imprison you. Twitter isn't going to unperson you. If you think Twitter is influential enough that it is quasi-governmental in authority, you should pursue anti-trust regulation. But otherwise, no Twitter is nothing like a government, and getting kicked off a platform isn't suppression of speech anymore than a me choosing not to publish your book us suppression of speech. I highly value the right of any entity to express their speech the way that see fit. That includes Twitter's right to kick people off their platform. I don't agree with the weaponization of "free speech" and liberal values that is common among certain groups, as it is used to quell criticism. When you start weaponizing your "free speech" as a way to constrain others, you are no longer reflecting liberal values.
  - dang 6y ago
    Would you please stop feeding egregious comments by replying, a.k.a. feeding the trolls? The site guidelines explicitly ask you not to do this, but to flag the comments instead: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. I've banned that account but the damage is caused just as much by the users who perpetuate the flamewar.
    - joshuamorton 6y ago
      [Ah I'm entirely rewriting this, sorry]. Comments like this one are...tricky. While I can see why this one should be flagged (and I'm glad that it was), there's similar enough things that aren't flag-worthy posted all the time. Arguments about speech and censorship are really common on HN, and I doubt you're saying they're all off limits, for example I don't think the subthread with TearsInTheRain was bad. I certainly think that user is wrong, but I don't see why their comment was flagged (unless the answer is "the whole subthread is flag-y).
- shadowgovt 6y ago
  Did you know that Germany currently bans overt support of Nazis?

See? It's not so hard.

by newobj 6y ago

See? It's not so hard.

...said the person when Hitler finally banned the dangerous and destructive Communists and then the Jews from public life. It’s amazing how few people understand the implications of banning people from public life. They think it’s easy and can’t understand why anyone would object. Total ignorance of history resulting in a total lack of awareness. If you think something as vital as free speech and censorship are simple and “not so hard” this is a good sign you’re missing something huge. In general, if you can’t convincingly argue the other side, you’re not sufficiently intelligent or informed and should educate yourself or refrain from advocating your clueless point of view.

joshuamorton 6y ago
Please don't compare banning people from twitter and exterminating Jews. The two aren't comparable.
- allarm 6y ago
  They are though. Please don’t deny that. The two are comparable.
  - joshuamorton 6y ago
    I can't tell if you're being needlessly pedantic, but to clarify: no there are no similarities between the holocaust and getting banned from twitter. The two situations aren't similar, and comparing them is disgusting and shows a lack of empathy for people who have faced actual persecution. Sure, you can write the words that compare them. No, you should not.
    - allarm 6y ago
      The fact that you, young liberals, are praising censorship whenever it suits your agenda, amuses me. It’s only a matter of time before you start burning books. You already do that, in fact.
      - dang 6y ago
        Please don't do ideological flamewar on HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- TearsInTheRain 6y ago
  I feel like this is a false comparison. Hitler did plenty of shitty things to the jews before exterminating them. Can we compare this to Hitler banning jews from civil service? The point of both is to marginalize a class of people those in positions of power find undesirable.
  - joshuamorton 6y ago
    Twitter isn't the government. Nor are QAnon-conspiracy-theorists comparable to <an ethnic or religious minority group>. So no. You could, however compare Hitler banning the Jews from civil service to Trump creating new guidelines that ban trans-women from shelters. That is a government action to marginalize a class of people those in positions of power find undesirable.
    - TearsInTheRain 6y ago
      Twitter might not be the government but it surely is an institution that has a significant amount of power and influence on society. So much so that I think the public should pressure them to adhere to liberal values like free speech and rightly get upset if they dont. And regarding the fact that conspiracy theorists arent an ethnic group, sure thats right they are not. They are still an ideological group. Are we committed to making a society that works for a diverse range of ideological groups or do we have to fit inside the box of what Jack Dorsey thinks is normal to participate in society? I think the american value of right to pursue happens means powerful institutions should be extremely careful before judging some group as not being normal or fit for society. Or I guess we can give up these values because now we dont like the results.
      - joshuamorton 6y ago
        Twitter isn't going to shoot you. Twitter isn't going to imprison you. Twitter isn't going to unperson you. If you think Twitter is influential enough that it is quasi-governmental in authority, you should pursue anti-trust regulation. But otherwise, no Twitter is nothing like a government, and getting kicked off a platform isn't suppression of speech anymore than a me choosing not to publish your book us suppression of speech. I highly value the right of any entity to express their speech the way that see fit. That includes Twitter's right to kick people off their platform. I don't agree with the weaponization of "free speech" and liberal values that is common among certain groups, as it is used to quell criticism. When you start weaponizing your "free speech" as a way to constrain others, you are no longer reflecting liberal values.
- dang 6y ago
  Would you please stop feeding egregious comments by replying, a.k.a. feeding the trolls? The site guidelines explicitly ask you not to do this, but to flag the comments instead: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. I've banned that account but the damage is caused just as much by the users who perpetuate the flamewar.
  - joshuamorton 6y ago
    [Ah I'm entirely rewriting this, sorry]. Comments like this one are...tricky. While I can see why this one should be flagged (and I'm glad that it was), there's similar enough things that aren't flag-worthy posted all the time. Arguments about speech and censorship are really common on HN, and I doubt you're saying they're all off limits, for example I don't think the subthread with TearsInTheRain was bad. I certainly think that user is wrong, but I don't see why their comment was flagged (unless the answer is "the whole subthread is flag-y).
shadowgovt 6y ago
Did you know that Germany currently bans overt support of Nazis?