9 ms·

Who said unicorns are good? Money =\= value. It's just a proxy, which doesn't always work. You know how you can prevent regulation? Don't be excessive and gree

by mola 6y ago

Who said unicorns are good? Money =\= value. It's just a proxy, which doesn't always work. You know how you can prevent regulation? Don't be excessive and greedy.

azinman2 6y ago
But where are the examples of the valued products in large use? Let's see.. Spotify ok, Mojang hmmmhmmm.... Rovio? Outside of Spotify, what do I use on a daily basis as an American that's a valued EU-based company?
- mola 6y ago
  A lot of infrastructure. A lot, industry is not tech. The world is not the US.
  - azinman2 6y ago
    The article is specifically talking about internet-based companies, aka "tech". It seems to me you're confirming an absence of them, which to me invalidates your comment of 'who said unicorns are good?', because the absence suggests that the current model isn't working. It's true the world isn't the US -- can you point to successful internet-based EU companies that are big in both EU and some other part of the world? If so, it would seem a shame that they're not able to compete well in the US given the size of the market and the compatibility in culture/law/trade.
    - mola 6y ago
      He asked for valued products. Not valued tech products. With the hidden assumption, which I called out, that only products created by tech unicorns are products.
  - kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
    And pithy one-liners are not arguments. OP is specifically asking for examples.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- babesh 6y ago
  Not going to take sides but Europe does have innovation. It’s just not necessarily commercial or they have been bought out. JetBrains, Minecraft, Python, Linux, HTTP/HTML, ARM, DeepMind.
  - adventured 6y ago
    Linux isn't a good example. Torvalds abandoned Europe a mere five years into Linux, and has lived in the US ever since. For 80% of the development of Linux, he has been in the US, almost a quarter of a century. His home is in the US, he's an American citizen. He has lived in the US as long as he lived in Europe at this point (except he chose to live in the US, he was born in the Europe and left by choice).
  - dragonelite 6y ago
    Wouldn't really count the UK as part of continental Europe, i see them more as a part of the anglo sphere(US,UK,AUS and NZ). But wouldn't also say programming language can be claimed by a continent because most are global effort or contributions. The scenario in my head is what if the US decides to put the same kind of sanction/embargos they have put on Russia, Iran and China how well will the EU handle such a economic/technological warfare, can we in the EU continue to function by flipping a switch and have cyber sovereignty. Because as far as i can see the EU tech sector got colonized by US companies, and i wouldn't be surprised if the same happen with India in 10~20 years.
    - petre 6y ago
      The US won't probably go as far as to enact sanctions against the EU but rather pressure its leaders to support US against Russia and China, like banning Huawei spyware or commonly applying sanctions. Which we should probably do anyway because its in our common interest.
  - haecceity 6y ago
    Not going to take sides but none of those are internet companies.
- adventured 6y ago
  > Outside of Spotify, what do I use on a daily basis as an American that's a valued EU-based company? ARM Holdings (to be fair they did spend 99% of their life up to this point in the EU) and SAP are two reasonable examples derived from the EU that have products that are used by Americans regularly. ARM was co-founded by two American companies and is now owned by a Japanese company, so that's not exactly a shining independent example for the EU (past or present).
  - azinman2 6y ago
    It's not an 'internet' based company, which this article is specifically talking about. German cars are heavily used by Americans, and I have many German appliances, but again that's not what the subject matter is.
    - adventured 6y ago
      ARM and SAP are both Internet companies without question. ARM wouldn't be relevant at all without the Internet. In practical terms its product is entirely linked to the Internet, specifically the mobile Internet. ARM is not a website, sure, nor an app. It's as much an Internet company as AWS is. One could pretend AWS could exist in some formulation without the Internet, but that would be silly. The same is true with ARM as it exists today, the Internet made them what they are. If you remove the Internet, which neuters smartphones, ARM all but vanishes; thus, they're plainly an Internet company. You don't have to be strictly software to be an Internet company.
      - azinman2 6y ago
        You could then call Nokia and Ericsson Internet companies, but they also existed for purely voice-based services. ARM chips go into all kinds of things like hard drives and microcontrollers that are not Internet based. Yes it's true that ARM has exploded due to cell phones, which in turn heavily rely on Internet-connectivity for their value proposition, but the Apple Newton used an ARM-chip well before 3G. This article is talking about 'internet-vision'... I don't see how ARM fits into that vision, especially since it effectively predates it. Plus it's now been sold to Softbank at any rate.
- triceratops 6y ago
  > what do I use on a daily basis as an American that's a valued EU-based company? Booking.com? Adyen? (they're worth more than Stripe)
  - azinman2 6y ago
    Pretty short list...
    - triceratops 6y ago
      Mojang, Ubisoft, CD Projekt Red
- dariosalvi78 6y ago
  Skype, OVH, Zalando. There are surely others, but, yes, most internet companies are in the US. The question is why? I can think of two reasons: the US is more uniform (one language to start with), so once the business starts to go well it explodes quickly, whereas in Europe it may go well in one country, but expanding to other countries is harder. The other is because it's where the big investments are, so people, also from Europe, go there to get funded, which attracts more investments. It's a positive feedback loop and it's hard to stop it.
mrmuagi 6y ago
> Don't be excessive and greedy. Easier said than done if you have a monopoly. Blah, Blah, competition, Something, Something.

by mola 6y ago

Who said unicorns are good? Money =\= value. It's just a proxy, which doesn't always work. You know how you can prevent regulation? Don't be excessive and greedy.

azinman2 6y ago

But where are the examples of the valued products in large use? Let's see.. Spotify ok, Mojang hmmmhmmm.... Rovio? Outside of Spotify, what do I use on a daily basis as an American that's a valued EU-based company?

mola 6y ago
A lot of infrastructure. A lot, industry is not tech. The world is not the US.
- azinman2 6y ago
  The article is specifically talking about internet-based companies, aka "tech". It seems to me you're confirming an absence of them, which to me invalidates your comment of 'who said unicorns are good?', because the absence suggests that the current model isn't working. It's true the world isn't the US -- can you point to successful internet-based EU companies that are big in both EU and some other part of the world? If so, it would seem a shame that they're not able to compete well in the US given the size of the market and the compatibility in culture/law/trade.
  - mola 6y ago
    He asked for valued products. Not valued tech products. With the hidden assumption, which I called out, that only products created by tech unicorns are products.
- kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
  And pithy one-liners are not arguments. OP is specifically asking for examples.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
babesh 6y ago
Not going to take sides but Europe does have innovation. It’s just not necessarily commercial or they have been bought out. JetBrains, Minecraft, Python, Linux, HTTP/HTML, ARM, DeepMind.
- adventured 6y ago
  Linux isn't a good example. Torvalds abandoned Europe a mere five years into Linux, and has lived in the US ever since. For 80% of the development of Linux, he has been in the US, almost a quarter of a century. His home is in the US, he's an American citizen. He has lived in the US as long as he lived in Europe at this point (except he chose to live in the US, he was born in the Europe and left by choice).
- dragonelite 6y ago
  Wouldn't really count the UK as part of continental Europe, i see them more as a part of the anglo sphere(US,UK,AUS and NZ). But wouldn't also say programming language can be claimed by a continent because most are global effort or contributions. The scenario in my head is what if the US decides to put the same kind of sanction/embargos they have put on Russia, Iran and China how well will the EU handle such a economic/technological warfare, can we in the EU continue to function by flipping a switch and have cyber sovereignty. Because as far as i can see the EU tech sector got colonized by US companies, and i wouldn't be surprised if the same happen with India in 10~20 years.
  - petre 6y ago
    The US won't probably go as far as to enact sanctions against the EU but rather pressure its leaders to support US against Russia and China, like banning Huawei spyware or commonly applying sanctions. Which we should probably do anyway because its in our common interest.
- haecceity 6y ago
  Not going to take sides but none of those are internet companies.
adventured 6y ago
> Outside of Spotify, what do I use on a daily basis as an American that's a valued EU-based company? ARM Holdings (to be fair they did spend 99% of their life up to this point in the EU) and SAP are two reasonable examples derived from the EU that have products that are used by Americans regularly. ARM was co-founded by two American companies and is now owned by a Japanese company, so that's not exactly a shining independent example for the EU (past or present).
- azinman2 6y ago
  It's not an 'internet' based company, which this article is specifically talking about. German cars are heavily used by Americans, and I have many German appliances, but again that's not what the subject matter is.
  - adventured 6y ago
    ARM and SAP are both Internet companies without question. ARM wouldn't be relevant at all without the Internet. In practical terms its product is entirely linked to the Internet, specifically the mobile Internet. ARM is not a website, sure, nor an app. It's as much an Internet company as AWS is. One could pretend AWS could exist in some formulation without the Internet, but that would be silly. The same is true with ARM as it exists today, the Internet made them what they are. If you remove the Internet, which neuters smartphones, ARM all but vanishes; thus, they're plainly an Internet company. You don't have to be strictly software to be an Internet company.
    - azinman2 6y ago
      You could then call Nokia and Ericsson Internet companies, but they also existed for purely voice-based services. ARM chips go into all kinds of things like hard drives and microcontrollers that are not Internet based. Yes it's true that ARM has exploded due to cell phones, which in turn heavily rely on Internet-connectivity for their value proposition, but the Apple Newton used an ARM-chip well before 3G. This article is talking about 'internet-vision'... I don't see how ARM fits into that vision, especially since it effectively predates it. Plus it's now been sold to Softbank at any rate.
triceratops 6y ago
> what do I use on a daily basis as an American that's a valued EU-based company? Booking.com? Adyen? (they're worth more than Stripe)
- azinman2 6y ago
  Pretty short list...
  - triceratops 6y ago
    Mojang, Ubisoft, CD Projekt Red
dariosalvi78 6y ago
Skype, OVH, Zalando. There are surely others, but, yes, most internet companies are in the US. The question is why? I can think of two reasons: the US is more uniform (one language to start with), so once the business starts to go well it explodes quickly, whereas in Europe it may go well in one country, but expanding to other countries is harder. The other is because it's where the big investments are, so people, also from Europe, go there to get funded, which attracts more investments. It's a positive feedback loop and it's hard to stop it.

mrmuagi 6y ago

> Don't be excessive and greedy. Easier said than done if you have a monopoly. Blah, Blah, competition, Something, Something.