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What exactly gives you more faith in the old continent? The thousands of unicorns Europe has? No, there are hardly any. The UX nightmares cookie laws create? N

by zpeti 6y ago

What exactly gives you more faith in the old continent? The thousands of unicorns Europe has? No, there are hardly any. The UX nightmares cookie laws create? No. Lower bandwidth fees than in the US? That is actually because of regulatory capture in the US, plus the sheer size of the continent, nothing to do with free markets. So how exactly is Europe so great? The most unicorns came out of the UK who have just decided they’ve had enough of all the regulations.

jfk13 6y ago
UX nightmares are not the fault of cookie laws, they're the fault of companies that don't want to respect users. If the companies behaved more ethically, there'd have been little impetus to even create such laws.
- stickfigure 6y ago
  "The system is perfect; it's the humans that are flawed!"
  - jfk13 6y ago
    The system isn't perfect. But it's better than pure anarchy. Probably no (human-designed) system will be perfect. In the case of obnoxious GDPR consent popups, though, the main problem is companies (under the direction of humans, obviously) that are doing their utmost to subvert the clear and reasonable intent of the law, because they simply don't want to respect it (or their users). They're a cancer on the internet. I hope to see the day when enforcement is taken more seriously.
    - missedthecue 6y ago
      >But it's better than pure anarchy. that's a pretty low bar
  - rakoo 6y ago
    It's easy to see that websites want people to accept all unnecessary cookies, but are mandated to ask for it. So they'll give one big "Accept everything" button and bury the rest under as many clicks as possible. This is not an issue with the law, nor is it an issue with the users; you know how to make a better UX ? Remove all tracking content. You know how to make it as good as the way the websites owner want ? Make the "Reject all" button front and center. The UX being bad is a _conscious decision_ by the website owners
  - dmitriid 6y ago
    The system isn't perfect. But those cookie consent shit that the vast majority of websites peddle? It's directly against the law
mola 6y ago
Who said unicorns are good? Money =\= value. It's just a proxy, which doesn't always work. You know how you can prevent regulation? Don't be excessive and greedy.
- azinman2 6y ago
  But where are the examples of the valued products in large use? Let's see.. Spotify ok, Mojang hmmmhmmm.... Rovio? Outside of Spotify, what do I use on a daily basis as an American that's a valued EU-based company?
  - mola 6y ago
    A lot of infrastructure. A lot, industry is not tech. The world is not the US.
    - azinman2 6y ago
      The article is specifically talking about internet-based companies, aka "tech". It seems to me you're confirming an absence of them, which to me invalidates your comment of 'who said unicorns are good?', because the absence suggests that the current model isn't working. It's true the world isn't the US -- can you point to successful internet-based EU companies that are big in both EU and some other part of the world? If so, it would seem a shame that they're not able to compete well in the US given the size of the market and the compatibility in culture/law/trade.
      - mola 6y ago
        He asked for valued products. Not valued tech products. With the hidden assumption, which I called out, that only products created by tech unicorns are products.
    - kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
      And pithy one-liners are not arguments. OP is specifically asking for examples.
barneygale 6y ago
> That is actually because of regulatory capture in the US [...] nothing to do with free markets. Regulatory capture has everything to do with free markets and American capitalism. I don't even understand how Americans can use the internet without an overseas VPN.
- missedthecue 6y ago
  how can regulatory capture exist without regulators?
warpech 6y ago
Another problem created in Europe by iverregulation is MOSS. EU is a "single market" but with thousands of rules when it comes to taxation. It is very hard for B2C digital services startups to sell on the European market, because you have to charge taxes according to the rules of any of the 27 countries. Of course, this is an easy problem to solve for the behemoths.
- timoth 6y ago
  It seems a little unfair to single out Europe or the EU for this. If the EU didn't exist, then the situation wouldn't be any better (of course, you can hope that the EU would make the situation better than it is, but that requires greater harmonisation which is non-trivial and some may find unpalatable). And it's not just countries in Europe that require businesses to charge taxes according to the rules of the various countries -- many countries around the world do exactly the same. And as I understand it, differing sales tax across states in the USA can also create headaches. So it doesn't seem to me that this issue is specific to either Europe or the EU. As for the behemoths being able to solve the problem, there are options for smaller players as well, like using a specialist who handles all the tax issues for you worldwide -- for example Paddle (I'm unaffiliated and have never used them; I'm just aware of their existence).
C1sc0cat 6y ago
The US has botched regulation of telecoms compared to the UK/Europe

by zpeti 6y ago

jfk13 6y ago

UX nightmares are not the fault of cookie laws, they're the fault of companies that don't want to respect users. If the companies behaved more ethically, there'd have been little impetus to even create such laws.

stickfigure 6y ago
"The system is perfect; it's the humans that are flawed!"
- jfk13 6y ago
  The system isn't perfect. But it's better than pure anarchy. Probably no (human-designed) system will be perfect. In the case of obnoxious GDPR consent popups, though, the main problem is companies (under the direction of humans, obviously) that are doing their utmost to subvert the clear and reasonable intent of the law, because they simply don't want to respect it (or their users). They're a cancer on the internet. I hope to see the day when enforcement is taken more seriously.
  - missedthecue 6y ago
    >But it's better than pure anarchy. that's a pretty low bar
- rakoo 6y ago
  It's easy to see that websites want people to accept all unnecessary cookies, but are mandated to ask for it. So they'll give one big "Accept everything" button and bury the rest under as many clicks as possible. This is not an issue with the law, nor is it an issue with the users; you know how to make a better UX ? Remove all tracking content. You know how to make it as good as the way the websites owner want ? Make the "Reject all" button front and center. The UX being bad is a _conscious decision_ by the website owners
- dmitriid 6y ago
  The system isn't perfect. But those cookie consent shit that the vast majority of websites peddle? It's directly against the law

mola 6y ago

Who said unicorns are good? Money =\= value. It's just a proxy, which doesn't always work. You know how you can prevent regulation? Don't be excessive and greedy.

azinman2 6y ago
But where are the examples of the valued products in large use? Let's see.. Spotify ok, Mojang hmmmhmmm.... Rovio? Outside of Spotify, what do I use on a daily basis as an American that's a valued EU-based company?
- mola 6y ago
  A lot of infrastructure. A lot, industry is not tech. The world is not the US.
  - azinman2 6y ago
    The article is specifically talking about internet-based companies, aka "tech". It seems to me you're confirming an absence of them, which to me invalidates your comment of 'who said unicorns are good?', because the absence suggests that the current model isn't working. It's true the world isn't the US -- can you point to successful internet-based EU companies that are big in both EU and some other part of the world? If so, it would seem a shame that they're not able to compete well in the US given the size of the market and the compatibility in culture/law/trade.
    - mola 6y ago
      He asked for valued products. Not valued tech products. With the hidden assumption, which I called out, that only products created by tech unicorns are products.
  - kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
    And pithy one-liners are not arguments. OP is specifically asking for examples.

barneygale 6y ago

> That is actually because of regulatory capture in the US [...] nothing to do with free markets. Regulatory capture has everything to do with free markets and American capitalism. I don't even understand how Americans can use the internet without an overseas VPN.

missedthecue 6y ago
how can regulatory capture exist without regulators?

warpech 6y ago

Another problem created in Europe by iverregulation is MOSS. EU is a "single market" but with thousands of rules when it comes to taxation. It is very hard for B2C digital services startups to sell on the European market, because you have to charge taxes according to the rules of any of the 27 countries. Of course, this is an easy problem to solve for the behemoths.

timoth 6y ago
It seems a little unfair to single out Europe or the EU for this. If the EU didn't exist, then the situation wouldn't be any better (of course, you can hope that the EU would make the situation better than it is, but that requires greater harmonisation which is non-trivial and some may find unpalatable). And it's not just countries in Europe that require businesses to charge taxes according to the rules of the various countries -- many countries around the world do exactly the same. And as I understand it, differing sales tax across states in the USA can also create headaches. So it doesn't seem to me that this issue is specific to either Europe or the EU. As for the behemoths being able to solve the problem, there are options for smaller players as well, like using a specialist who handles all the tax issues for you worldwide -- for example Paddle (I'm unaffiliated and have never used them; I'm just aware of their existence).

C1sc0cat 6y ago

The US has botched regulation of telecoms compared to the UK/Europe