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AMD Launches 12 Desktop Renoir Ryzen 4000G Series APUs: But You Can’t Buy Them
- rbanffy 6y agoThey mean you can't buy without a computer.
- brian_herman__ 6y agoActually from the article "Just to be clear, AMD specified OEM and not system integrators (SIs). On our call, AMD clarified that the market for its APUs is skewed very heavily towards the big mass-market prebuilt customers like HP and Dell, rather than custom home builds. The numbers quoted were around 80% of all APU sales end up in these systems, and by working with OEMs only, AMD can also help manage stock levels of the Renoir silicon coming out of the fabs between desktops and notebooks."
- dfxm12 6y agoI could be way off, but I imagine OEM's buy a lot more parts in general than all system integrators combined. If this is the case, it could certainly explain the 80% number but still wouldn't really allow you to draw the conclusion that you should work with OEM's only.
- dspillett 6y agoThey specifically refer to APUs which IIRC means they are referencing only models that include GPU capability. Perhaps OEMs tend to favour CPU-only Ryzen models paired with other GPUs, except at the low/budget end of the market which I assume the 4000 series is not aimed at, in which case the 80% value is perfectly plausible.
- rbanffy 6y agoWorking only with OEMs makes the company vulnerable to fewer clients.
- Jonnax 6y agoThey said they're going to be doing something for retail consumers soon. Their standard desktop CPUs are flying off the shelves. I imagine there's only so much capacity for chip building.
- qayxc 6y agoThe main reason is simply market share - the DYI APU market is very small compared to the system builder market. So if 80% of their APUs end up in prebuilt systems anyway, it makes sense for them to focus on that market.
- bryanlarsen 6y agoThese are down-binned laptop parts, and the OEM's are also laptop manufacturers, so this strategy gives both AMD and the OEM's more flexibility in selecting product mix.
- bjoli 6y agoNothing that I do requires a discrete GPU. I want an integrated GPU that can drive a 4k screen without input lag at 60fps. It kills me that there are no good AMD offerings.
- slimginz 6y agoI feel like they'll wait until Ryzen 4th gen comes out since that will be on new silicon (tho still 7nm), leaving a bit of room for extra production of their APUs for DIY since this is still Zen 2 chips just with the 4000 naming.
- ramshanker 6y agoEagerly awaiting a mini PC with these chips. Hope DELL/HP come up with an option soon.
- a012 6y agoI'm waiting for the ASUS PN50 line up to be available worldwide, even though they use AMD 4000 laptop APUs.
- qayxc 6y agoI agree - the GE-parts look very promising and since these are desktop CPUs, we could finally see a NUC-like solution with a reasonable upgrade path. Intel's Compute Elements-idea [1] doesn't really resonate with me as upgrades seem to be very expensive (judging from the non-existent pricing information). [1] https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/boards-kits/nuc/elements/nuc-compute-elements.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/boards-kits...
- bjoli 6y agoI jus got a second hand 6 core (6T) HP elitedesk mini for cheaper than I'd like to admit. Something similar with these APUs is enough to make me drool!
- CyberDildonics 6y agoYou can already build a computer that is basically the size of a miniITX motherboard by buying a $50 case, an external AC/DC power supply of 12v with 10-20 amps and a low profile noctua heat pipe cooler.
- jjice 6y agoAnyone have an idea if these could possibly have enough power for a media PC? I'm looking to handle at least 2 1080p transcodes via Jellyfin/Plex. My current plan was to get an old PC and toss an old graphics card in it, but these could be a great alternative.
- skunkworker 6y agoAny recent intel cpu 8th gen and you with quicksync is going to be your best bet. An i5-8600 can do 15-20 transcodes on its own using the quick sync part of the CPU.
- mmastrac 6y agoPlex has puzzled me for a while - why such limited hardware support for HW transcoding? Is this some sort of paid partnership they have with Intel/nVidia?
- skunkworker 6y agoI don’t believe so. It’s just that Intel and Nvidia have put HW accelerated encoding into their consumer products. You’re free to use the CPU to transcode but you may only get a couple of streams. The quicksync on chip can do 15+ on the lower end but sacrifices encoding quality for speed. Though recent quick sync and nvenc quality has significantly improved. Edit: Intel has added the dedicated encoder chip inside most consumer (almost no xeons) where as far as I know AMD is not doing the same thing (not counting GPU encoding).
- entropicdrifter 6y agoAMD APUs/GPUs have HW accelerated encoding/decoding as well, at least in Jellyfin. I'm not sure what you're getting at here.
- namibj 6y agoAMD's video encoding HW is comparatively poor in performance/quality. I.e., if you're bandwidth-constrained (wireless or internet uplink from home), you're likely better off with x264 or maybe SVT-AV1 on a CPU instead. Nvidia's H.265 encoder in Turing (the 2000-series of GPUs, many RTX branded) delivers superb quality for >=1080p30 real-time encoding compared to the alternatives (x264, QuickSync, AMD GPU) (x265 isn't really suitable for realtime-encoding). The only reason I haven't yet planned a concrete AMD workstation is the lack of proper rr[0] support[1] in their CPUs, and for the GPU the rather poor hardware encoding[2] that makes it infeasible to seriously stream out 2160p60 without problematic visual artifacts. [0]: https://rr-project.org/ https://rr-project.org/ [1]: https://github.com/mozilla/rr/issues/2034#issuecomment-583614673 https://github.com/mozilla/rr/issues/2034#issuecomment-58361... [2]: I have not found serious competitive benchmarks for the recent AMD hardware encoders. I would appreciate such.
- a012 6y agoI don't know if AMD intended to mock Intel when they named new Athlon Gold and Silver which are on lower end, meanwhile Intel named Xeon Gold & Silver on the higher end.
- katmannthree 6y agoI think it's competing with the Pentium Gold and Silver branding which are more or less in the same budget market.
- a012 6y agoYeah, I forgot Intel also has Pentium Gold & Silver, IIRC Intel just rebranded Celeron?
- nolok 6y agoCeleron still exists somehow. It "reigns" in the ~200 integrated pc area and cheap laptops.
- aquaticsunset 6y agoYep - my little two bay, pre-built NAS has a Celeron in it. I suspect this is the market they're targeting.
- nolok 6y agoI don't think so, low end Intel above Atom but before i3 is still named Celeron and Pentium, and the Pentium Gold is a well known "brand" in that area.
- Zenst 6y agoMaybe and ironic given the history. Intel got upset about clone x86 CPU's using comparable numbering systems. Reason being 286,386,486 are just numbers and they couldn't trademark numbers. Hence the brand name pentium was born as a way to stop the alternative x86 cpu's capitalising upon what Intel deemed a brand and at the time, it was. Gold and Silver are a bit like numbers, can't be trademark protected and with that, history repeats in many ways and with all that in mind, this is funny for me.
- numpad0 6y agoSome will be available for individual purchases in some markets[0] if you absolutely must have them: Launches 8/8 11:00(JST) Ryzen 7 PRO 4750G ¥39,980($413 w/tax) Ryzen 5 PRO 4650G ¥26,980($279, same) Ryzen 3 PRO 4350G ¥19,980($207, same) JPY prices are MSRP before tax(10%) [0]: https://www.gdm.or.jp/pressrelease/2020/0721/356407 https://www.gdm.or.jp/pressrelease/2020/0721/356407
- nazgulsenpai 6y agoI just got a Lenovo V14 Ryzen 5 4500U laotop yesterday and this thing is amazing. It benchmarks almost as high as my Ryzen 5 1600 desktop PC, but it feels so much faster in actual everyday use. To those who scoff at repurposed laptop parts being used in desktop systems, I don't think that's going to be an issue here because these 4000 series APUs have outstanding performance. I'm not an Intel fan and have a tendency to root for the underdog so I may have an inherent bias here. The fact that Intel not only has competition, but has in alot of arenas been bested by AMD should only mean good things for the health of the overall market.
- blackaspen 6y agoI've got an X13 AMD with the 4750U and 32GB of RAM and it just dramatically outperforms anything else I've used. It's crazy. I bought it because I wanted a step-up from Intel CPUs that was worthwhile from a 7th gen i5, and this is over 5 times as fast and feels like it.
- nobleach 6y agoI tried to customize an X13 on their website and it wouldn't give me an option for 32GB. Did you have to do something else to get that configuration?
- VibrantClarity 6y agoYou have to choose the Ryzen 4750U first.
- Dunedan 6y agoI wonder why they added this limitation. Does somebody know if there another explanation other than Lenovo trying to maximize profit by forcing every customer who wants to go for 32GB of memory to get the most expensive CPU as well?
- nazgulsenpai 6y ago
- wahern 6y agoI wonder what PC Engines will do to replace AMD's Jaguar APU/SoC. All of AMD's new SoCs seem to be too hot for passive cooling, at least without huge fins. I can't find the link, but there were recent discussions (by Red Hat? GCC? clang?) about changing the default minimum supported ISA. There were several proposals, IIRC, with Jaguar right in the middle of the proffered choices, and possibly the best choice for now. But I imagine if that discussion were to happen 2 or 3 years down the road, even Jaguar might not make the cut. At the low end of TDP, Intel still reigns supreme. But their Atom lineup makes far too many compromises, excluding various ISA extensions to price differentiate. And Soekris got burned with their net6501 and defective Atom chips, so I imagine Intel isn't that great a partner for small companies. (I doubt AMD is, either, given the firmware pain people have, but at least their products work.)
- undersuit 6y agoThey'll use the R1102G which has the same power envelope as the T40E released 8 years ago? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_accelerated_processing_units#R1000-Family:_%22Banded_Kestrel%22_(2019,_SoC) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_accelerated_proces...
- wahern 6y agoAh, released February 2020. I missed that. Cool. The last word on the matter from PC Engines was here, http://www.pcengines.info/forums/?page=post&id=7D919FB8-C4BB-4C33-B47B-F8F53E01600D&fid=DF5ACB70-99C4-4C61-AFA6-4C0E0DB05B2A&pageindex=3 http://www.pcengines.info/forums/?page=post&id=7D919FB8-C4BB..., where it seemed even 12W might be too much, given the power draw of the other components.
- puzzlingcaptcha 6y agoWould they move from four physical cores (GX-412TC) to two and without even hyperthreading (R1102G)? I'm not convinced. I've seen a few thin client manufacturers that moved to Intel Goldmont APUs such as 4c ~10W J4105 (Wyse 5040, Fujitsu s740). Interestingly HP continues to use a custom downclocked Carrizo in their t630 (GX-420GI, 4c, 16W). My guess is PCEngines is gonna wait and see, as the four core jaguar is enough for what they need for now, and they care about the longevity of their product life cycles.
- jeffbee 6y agoAnyone know a good workstation story for AMD? I'd really like to have a development workstation with an EPYC CPU (like the 7302P) and a motherboard that actually supports ECC, DDR4-3200, and PCIe 4.0. All I can find are not-yet-launched products like the Supermicro H12 mobo. Whitebox system integrators are shipping older Zen-compatible mobos that don't have PCIe 4 and 3200MHz memory, and there don't seem to be any OEMs in the game (Dell, HP, Lenovo are all Intel-only).
- brians 6y agoSystem 76?
- kllrnohj 6y agoFrom a few days ago: https://www.anandtech.com/show/15910/amd-announces-ryzen-threadripper-pro-workstation-parts-for-oems-only https://www.anandtech.com/show/15910/amd-announces-ryzen-thr... tl;dr: Lenovo ThinkStation P620 coming in September
- blakes 6y agoIf you've got the setup for rackmount, the Dell R7515 has PCIe4, but not 3200MHz memory support I think.
- gfv 6y agoSupermicro's H12 range was launched a year ago.
- onli 6y agoIt's a bit funny that one of the problems these APUs have is that the gpu power is linked to the cpu power. The 4700G has more Vega CUs than the 4300G, which really is a pity for gamers that are interested in an APU to get a cheap gaming capable system, and unnecessary for those that want a strong processor with just some integrated graphics and would be just fine with the weaker graphics module. It would be nice if you could separate the processor and the graphics part and just mix them as needed... ;)
- ed25519FUUU 6y agoI’m very much interested in building a low power home server with one of these chips, but I’m wondering how I support a large disk array? I’m not interested in an existing NAS setup. I’d like to do it myself.
- CyberDildonics 6y agoWhat would you do normally? How do these change anything?
- zlynx 6y agoTo support a large disk array you just need a few things. - Lots of drive connectors. - That can be an 8 port SATA motherboard. - A SATA HBA card. I've seen some with up to 24 ports, or some of these support port expanders which you would generally plug one cable into a hot-swap box of 2 to 4 drives. - A SAS HBA card. More expensive but you can use SAS drives with enterprise features. If you're okay with used drives you can sometimes find deals on 10 drives at a time at 25% of the new drive cost. - Lots of power connectors and a good PSU. If you have 8 SATA drives you need 8 SATA drive power connectors. Or you use hot-swap boxes and plug each one into one power connector, but watch the totals and remember drive spin-up can use 4-5 times as much power than normal. Numbers I've seen are 8W per active drive and 35W (maximum) for drive startup. But at any rate for large disk arrays the CPU can be ignored because almost anything will work. Hard disks are slow enough that you need like, 20 of them before the CPU speed starts to matter. With SSDs you can max out the controllers and PCIe lanes and even RAM bandwidth all too easily.
- KozmoNau7 6y agoI recently built a Celeron J4105 system for a NAS/server/HTPC, in a compact Fractal Node 304 case. The ASRock J4105-ITX has four SATA 3 ports and a PCIe slot, to which I added a 2-port SATA 3.0 controller. Total six disks, which fits in the very compact case. I run a 120GB SSD for the system, and a random assortment of 2-3TB disks for storage, in a Btrfs RAID1 pool. All in, about 2/3rds the price I would have paid for a 4-disk Synology NAS. You can get micro-ATX boards with 6-10 SATA 3 ports, and PCIe board with basically as many SATA ports as you're willing to pay for.
- 6y ago
- pella 6y agoEU ( https://www.centralpoint.nl/ https://www.centralpoint.nl/ prices ) - AMD Ryzen 3 PRO 4350G - 4.0GHz (Tray) - 151,- EUR - AMD Ryzen 3 PRO 4350G - 4.0GHz (MPK) - 194,- EUR - AMD Ryzen 5 PRO 4650G - 4.2GHz (Tray) - 214,- EUR - AMD Ryzen 5 PRO 4650G - 4.2GHz (MPK) - 276,- EUR - AMD Ryzen 7 PRO 4750G - 4.4GHz (Tray) - 313,- EUR [1] - AMD Ryzen 7 PRO 4750G - 4.4GHz (MPK) - 405,- EUR [1] ----------- [1] https://www.centralpoint.nl/zoeken/amd%2520ryzen%25207%2520pro%25204750g/ https://www.centralpoint.nl/zoeken/amd%2520ryzen%25207%2520p...
- Tade0 6y agoAMD states that the initial release of Ryzen 4000G hardware is for OEMs like Dell and HP only for their pre-built systems. They did something similar with the 4xxxHS series for laptops - Asus has exclusivity over those for the time being.
- rconti 6y ago> The AMD Accelerated Processing Unit (APU), formerly known as Fusion, is the marketing term for a series of 64-bit microprocessors from Advanced Micro Devices (AMD), designed to act as a central processing unit (CPU) and graphics processing unit (GPU) on a single die https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Accelerated_Processing_Unit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Accelerated_Processing_Uni...
- pachico 6y agoI bought an XPS 13 5 or 6 years ago. It is working perfectly after all these years of intense usage. (I wish actually it broke so I had an excuse to buy the newer version.) Unfortunately, XPS only carry intel. What would be a valid alternative to XPS with a Ryzen CPU?
- epmaybe 6y agoI think the thinkpad series may have something with a Ryzen CPU. Maybe just hold off for a while?
- jfkebwjsbx 6y agoThinkPad X13 AMD
- allset_ 6y agoI just looked to price one on their website, and it starts with some absurdly low specs including a 128GB SSD and a horrible 1366x768 TN screen for $1140. This is not acceptable in 2020.
- pachico 6y agoIndeed. For that price I still choose XPS
- ClumsyPilot 6y agoThats downright disrespectfull. Some poor sucker bought that!
- meigetsu 6y agoSince the GPU uses the system memory, is there any advantage to using these APUs for machine learning? GPU RAM is typically under 32GB (more commonly under 11GB) and quite expensive - for the price of a V100 you could buy 1TB of system DDR4 RAM. I'm guessing there are disadvantages in memory bandwidth, number of GPU cores, overall FLOPS, but was curious if anyone knew how these pros/cons balance out.
- nickysielicki 6y agoThe big issue I'd expect you to hit is that you're doing ML without CUDA, and there's just inherent problems to working in an environment where your hardware isn't the first-class citizen. ROCm/HIP/HCC is a broken ecosystem as of today. The 5700XT launched last year and still doesn't have support. I have some faith that they're going to get it straightened out in the next year or so, but today you're just asking for trouble if you're trying to use pytorch or tensorflow without being on team green.
- justincormack 6y agoThese machines are limited to 64GB RAM AFAIK, or maybe 32GB.
- AdrianB1 6y agoThe memory controller should support 4 DIMMs of 32 GB each, but in practice the motherboard implementation may limit to 4 x 16GB. How much can be allocated to the GPU part, no idea.
- pmalynin 6y agoI was an ML engineer in a previous life. For most ML and GPGPU workloads the bottleneck is memory bandwidth. It’s normal to hit 2TB/s because of all the caches, memory banks and the wide memory bus. I wouldn’t expect the APU to perform nearly as well as even an entry level GPU (say 1660) but I would be curious to see.
- boring_twenties 6y agoLame. I thought one of these was finally going to replace my 4770K. Guess I'll wait a few more years.
- blinkingled 6y agoYou get the feeling that OEMs aren't really playing fair with AMD. Lenovo is practically hiding their AMD options, pricing them too high without the usual discounts that are always there for the Intel models, then there's inadequate base configs (128gb ssd really for a 1500$ laptop?!), Crappy display options etc. Just read Asus shutting off the vents on AMD laptop yet identical Intel one doesn't have that problem somehow.