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Apple commits to be 100% carbon neutral for supply chain and products by 2030
- Whatarethese 6y agoGood on Apple! All companies should strive for some levels of sustainability. Upfront it might cost them but it will save them money down the road.
- pera 6y agoWouldn't be awesome if large corporations competed to reach the carbon neutral mark with the same enthusiasm they had for the trillion dollar mark? :) Every company should add a page with a live chart showing how well they are doing right now and how far away they are to be carbon neutral.
- somethoughts 6y agoPerhaps such a chart could be made for them on their behalf? Actually curious now if someone is already charting this.
- lrem 6y agoGoogle reached carbon neutrality in 2008 I believe. What did it get out of that? How does that motivate the others?
- pera 6y agoWell, they got my business, but only because I was specifically looking for "green" cloud computing providers (I had no idea they were carbon neutral before doing my research).
- exabrial 6y agoDoesn't matter. You know what would be awesome? Repairable and upgradable products. Being stylish and environmentally friendly aren't competing concerns unless you make them.
- m0zg 6y agoNot using labor from the country which runs actual concentration camps would be pretty cool, too.
- spiderfarmer 6y agoPlease let the downvoters explain why they think this opinion deserves downvotes. I thought this was a news and discussion platform.
- dx87 6y agoBecause this post is about discussing the environmental impact of Apple's products. If someone wants to talk about the concentration camps, they can do it on any of the other billion posts that are specifically discussing it.
- DeusExMachina 6y agoI don't think there is any rule stating that HN discussion need to stay precisely on the topic of the article discussed. In fact, there are many about topics just tangential to the main one.
- dx87 6y ago> Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That destroys the curiosity this site exists for. Unless Apple products are being made in the concentration camps, it's not even close to tangential to the topic of environmental sustainability of Apple's supply chain. It's just trying to derail the discussion by bringing up political issues.
- kop316 6y agoI'm pretty sure that's exactly the claims being made here: https://www.csmonitor.com/World/2020/0305/Are-forced-labor-Uyghurs-making-Apple-and-Samsung-phones https://www.csmonitor.com/World/2020/0305/Are-forced-labor-U... https://qz.com/1811305/nike-apple-linked-to-forced-uighur-labor-in-china-report-says/ https://qz.com/1811305/nike-apple-linked-to-forced-uighur-la... https://www.newsweek.com/religious-freedom-watchdog-amazon-nike-apple-uighur-muslims-china-forced-labor-1492240 https://www.newsweek.com/religious-freedom-watchdog-amazon-n...
- lawrencevillain 6y agoSee — Uighur slave labor is good for the environment!
- birdyrooster 6y agoWinnie Xi Poo
- lokl 6y agoIf they're serious about reducing their pollution, they'll give more consideration to the end of the product life cycle.
- jjcon 6y agoOn the other hand, if the device has no footprint then it doesn’t matter as much. If Apple wants sustainability without compromising form/function this is a great way to do it. One can always do more - that’s an easy and always applying criticism. Let’s applaud when people do something good.
- fahrradflucht 6y agoBut "no footprint" seams pretty far away if not impossible. They claim _carbon_ neutrality in 10 years. There will still be pollution and resource over consumption which product lifecycle extension could work to improve up on.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago> On the other hand, if the device has no footprint then it doesn’t matter as much. Agreed. The problem is, I'm sure "carbon neutral" means they're using carbon offsets to a significant degree. Offsets are good, and I certainly wouldn't want to discourage any company from using them. But, they're also not a panacea—certainly not to the point where there's zero harm in buying a new phone versus fixing an existing one.
- Despegar 6y ago>The problem is, I'm sure "carbon neutral" means they're using carbon offsets to a significant degree. They aren't. See page 18. https://www.apple.com/environment/pdf/Apple_Environmental_Progress_Report_2020.pdf https://www.apple.com/environment/pdf/Apple_Environmental_Pr...
- monocasa 6y agoThat page only accounts for electricity used at Apple-owned facilities. There's a lot more to the carbon footprint than that.
- coold 6y agoWow, they found a new way to keep outsource in secret
- giorgioz 6y agoIt feels like it's a too far away goal and too big goal. 2030 is the new 2020 where we push away dreams for the future, forget about them, try to do them at the last moment and miss the deadline. I think it would be better to have have smaller goals with a shorter timeframe.
- zaphoyd 6y agoApple has been making and achieving smaller goals with shorter timeframes for a decade now. They committed to and acheived carbon neutrality for their first party operations already and are now incrementally pushing that out to their supply chain and product lifecycle. Based on past evidence this is not likely to be a set and forget arrangement for Apple.
- rm999 6y agoThis feels different to me. Apple released a detailed, concrete ten year roadmap that other companies can follow - this already indicates serious commitment. There are enough in-flight initiatives that if carbon neutrality is deprioritized it will have to be an explicit decision from high-up in the company. Also, this is Apple we're talking about, not Google :P
- mav3rick 6y agoGoogle already beat Apple to it long time ago. So you're right this is Apple not Google.
- Trufa 6y agoThis is such negative comment. I don't understand why this gets traction. I'm sure pretty smart people spent a lot of time in coming up with this goal that is ambitious and pretty noble may a I say. Probably going through months of goal planning a long vision setups. And with low effort comment you can say, meh, I think I know better without almost any contextual information about any of this. I don't mean to be insulting, just that I think it's a little disrespectful to peoples effort. And only negative. Maybe you can present us a semi detailed plan of how Apple can better set their carbon emission program.
- renw0rp 6y ago1. Reuse 2. Reduce 9. Recycle They missed the first point
- frankbreetz 6y agoIt's 1.Reduce 2.Reuse 3.Recycle
- zepto 6y agoWhat makes you think this? Reuse is fundamental to their strategy and has been for years.
- enahs-sf 6y agoWhile this is definitely a noble goal, I wonder what it would take for Apple to become carbon negative and what the timeframe for that would be?
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- kace91 6y agoJanuary 2, 2030. They just need to become neutral and plant an extra tree :)
- bilbo0s 6y agoI don't think it's possible. (Unless my understanding of the term "carbon negative" is mistaken.) Let's suppose you could manufacture your devices with 0 carbon emissions. No solar, no wind, no gas, no nothing. Some other energy source with no carbon inputs needed. For the sticklers, let's suppose none of the human employees breath or anything during the manufacture of the products. So no carbon there either. You still have to deliver it right? Let's suppose you make it in Chicago, or Miami, or San Fran, wherever. How are you going to get that product to Lincoln Nebraska with no carbon emissions? How will you get it to Lyon France? Or Aguadilla PR? or Ningbo? Or Mwanza? (And in this case it would have to be more than "no" carbon emissions, it would have to be "negative" carbon emissions.) I'm not certain any company can deliver a physical product with negative carbon emissions. It seems almost impossible without using funny math.
- zaphoyd 6y agoI believe negative carbon emissions are typically done via projects like carbon capture (various methods) and regulatory credits (essentially paying other people to reduce their emissions).
- enahs-sf 6y agohttps://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2020/01/16/microsoft-will-be-carbon-negative-by-2030/ https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2020/01/16/microsoft-will-b... Microsoft plans to be carbon negative by 2030. I think it's via offsets. For example, if Apple planted a tree for every iPhone sold. This is probably much more difficult given the consumer nature of their physical products, but it's not like they're short on cash.
- BelleOfTheBall 6y agoMaybe they'll also consider not using planned obsolescence and stop sourcing "blood gold"? There was a whole documentary on the latter but the former is the real big offender.
- cjohansson 6y agoI hope they focus on the human well-being aspect as well in their production and supply chain. There is no reason a Chinese worker should experience worse working-conditions than a US worker
- keymone 6y agoThey already do. And the difference is in economic, social and political situation in US and China. Nobody should experience worse working conditions than anybody else, but short of economic embargo on China by entire world, I doubt anything can move them.
- macintux 6y agoThey have been generating annual, detailed reports for years on the conditions at their suppliers and their programs to remediate problems. As far as I can tell, they are going much farther towards enforcing humane treatment than anyone else in the computer business, but I’d be curious to hear who’s doing a better job. https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/ https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/
- fermienrico 6y agoWe need to protest Apple to make products locally in California/Texas or in EU where sustainability can be traced [1], suppliers can be held accountable and there is no kowtow to the CCP. Sustainability is just one of the fringe benefits - labor is getting more expensive in China and Apple has risen because of cheap labor. Apple needs to bring back manufacturing to the West. It will invigorate local supply chains from screw makers to PCB manufacturers, glass cutting, CNC, etc. It would be a dream to buy an iPhone proudly made sustainably in US+EU. Why are we barking at NBA and flat out ignoring Apple? Where are protests outside of Apple HQ? Where is the press on this!!!? [1] https://9to5mac.com/2020/03/02/apple-suppliers-implicated-in-reports-of-uyghur-forced-labor-in-china/ https://9to5mac.com/2020/03/02/apple-suppliers-implicated-in...
- birdyrooster 6y agoWhy does Tim Apple get away with being so close to Donald Duck with private meetings and such to preserve Apple's business with China? I find it curious that the media hasn't bothered to take swipes at something so obviously in conflict with Apple's stated mission and ethos.
- curiousllama 6y agoI love the ambitious goal-setting. One thing to notice: > they’ve helped us make our products more energy efficient and bring new sources of clean energy online around the world. This is a play in the sustainable-tech market space. Inasmuch as _other companies_ care about sustainability, Apple is trying to publicly stay ahead so it can credibly claim expertise when other companies start paying attention.
- _qulr 6y agoThe battery in my 2014 MacBook Pro is going bad for the second time. Replacing the battery last time was expensive and a major ordeal. It's more difficult than replacing the battery in my car. Replacing the battery in my 2006 MacBook Pro took all of 15 seconds. If the lifetime of a battery powered device is expected to be much longer than the lifetime of the battery, then the battery needs to be easily user replaceable. Otherwise, the manufacturer has zero credibility on the environment. Don't even get me started on vendor OS lockdown and its effect on the environment. They're intentionally making devices disposable.
- samfisher83 6y agoI mean all the phone manufacturers are doing it, but phones used to have replaceable batteries. I think companies realized they could make more by selling new phones. But the iphone has never had a replaceable battery.
- quonn 6y agoI never got a new phone because the battery was not good enough anymore (and it can be replaced, just not by yourself). Apple charges about $50, obviously 10x cheaper than a new phone.
- rkagerer 6y agoFunny, my last few phone upgrades were in large part because of that. I went through 3 replacement batteries on my last phone (a Galaxy S5) over the course of 4-5 years because the OEM ones kept bulging (possibly due in part from heat generated by my aftermarket Qi panel). I find it terribly annoying being pushed to upgrade my device every couple years. I bought a brand new S10+ and after a year of use there's a noticeable difference in battery life. It's the model with 1TB Flash storage (yes) so I'm not eager to throw away the investment. I wish I could put in a new battery without need for adhesive peeling, a heat gun and luck. I agree with the comments about user-hostile design in regard to smartphone batteries.
- Spivak 6y ago
- ksec 6y agoThis lay the ground work where Apple will not include a Charger and EarPod in the next iPhone. They will probably tout it from an Environmental perspective along with the rumour of a braided USB -Lightning Cable. Apple could tout its packaging is 50% reduction in weight, and 30% reduction in total size in shipping. And less Carbon footprint in Shipping. Which will also saves them some money. From an environmental prospective, Apple is now so far ahead of everyone else in the industry that no company is matching them in theses checkboxes. So far ahead that it would be easier to get ARM to co-Design a competitive SoC against Apple's Ax Series than to catch up these environment issues. From Design, and Sourcing Renewables materials to providing or funding development of renewable energy, to shipping and recycling products. While I have criticise Apple for many of its design flaws. ( MacBook 2019 Magic Keyboard is still awful, Battery Replacement is still expensive, TouchBar, oversized Trackpad... etc ) Their supply chain operation is second to none and truly a marvel to behold.
- CivBase 6y agoMaybe I'll take Apple's environmental efforts seriously when they stop waging war against independent repair and stop blocking their suppliers from selling replacement parts. How can you claim to be environmental lt conscious when a huge part of your business is built on suckering customers into buying new, replacement devices when all they want is a repair or replacement for a relatively cheap component?
- judge2020 6y agoThis is the 15th time this has been talked about, but the reason they starve independent repair is because they can only guarantee a quality repair and/or replace a bad repair when they perform it (or when someone that has gone through their training and certifications has done it). If a customer goes to a repair shop that uses off-brand parts and is sloppy with their repair to the point that the issue re-surfaces in a few months, the customer is likely to blame Apple again instead of whoever did the repair.
- CivBase 6y ago> the customer is likely to blame Apple again instead of whoever did the repair. Says who? Bad repair shops are a problem, but Apple is exacerbating that problem and they know it. They want people to go the Apple store where their "geniuses" can tell them they have to spend thousands of dollars to replace a main board when the actual problem is a bent pin or an unplugged battery. They want independent repair to have a bad name so they can keep getting away with that nonsense. How are independent repair shops supposed to use on-brand parts when Apple wont even sell them at a reasonable price without some ridiculous contract? Apple's independent repair program is complete BS. Expensive parts, a lackluster part selection, and frivolous certifications are one thing, but that's not enough for Apple. Their independent repair program essentially prevents shops from doing anything more than simple screen and battery replacements. If they offer services beyond that, Apple revokes the shop's "privilege" to purchase overpriced OEM components. They say they want to prevent customers from being scammed by bad repair shops, but Apple's scam is just as bad. They want you to buy new devices, regardless of whether you want them, and they will trick you into buying them if they think they can get away with it.
- oliwarner 6y agoBy 2030?! Is this serious? If you want to trade in green credentials, do it today. They could offset their entire operation with a few calls. They have the cash to do it. They could take more active steps in short order too. Waiting 10 years to meet the target is a poor show.
- Proven 6y agoI don't care. First, this CO2 mumbo jumbo doesn't matter to me. Second, they help CCP with censorship so although I've owned several of their products for over a decade and still use two, I made a promise to myself to never again buy anything from Apple. Going 100% CCP free!