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I know people that have gone through chemotherapy. Since this was his 2nd cancer diagnosis, I can understand why he wouldn't want to go through it again. I can

I know people that have gone through chemotherapy. Since this was his 2nd cancer diagnosis, I can understand why he wouldn't want to go through it again. I can understand why he would so desperately want an alternative. If I were to be diagnosed with cancer tomorrow, I don't know what I'd decide for myself. Of it depends on the diagnosis, if it was just a small skin cancer they could just cut out, sure, let's do that. But if it was something more pernicious, like the Hodgkin lymphoma, I might refuse chemo. I may prefer to just get my affairs in order while not going through chemo, and just trying to appreciate what days I have left. And being able to appreciate the days I have left, because chemo can really knock you out. What's the point of getting more months of life, if you can't do anything? I wouldn't put any of my hopes in an alternative medicine cure, but I've been studying science in various forms for a long time. I have a reasonable knowledge of what might work and what wouldn't.

selectodude 6y ago
In the beginning, chemo can actually give you a couple days per week of normality before it knocks you on your ass. I remember chemo saturday, sleep sunday, mon/tue/wed were pretty good, thur/friday decline, chemo again saturday. It's not an all or nothing proposition. It can give you an extra few months of normality, even if you end up dying at the same time.
Nextgrid 6y ago
But in this case he didn't really have a choice. His attempt at an "alternative" therapy at best didn't have any effect, and by the looks of it it didn't really give him good quality of life either as his health was deteriorating.
- buitreVirtual 6y ago
  The doctors said he actually had a 50% or better chance of recovery.
masklinn 6y ago
Preferring quality of life to heavy-handed treatments is perfectly acceptable to me, but the article doesn't read like that was the intent here. "Sean" was not looking to let nature run its course.
Znafon 6y ago
> What's the point of getting more months of life, if you can't do anything? I sympathise with the way you feel, but here he did not refused treatment to better live the time he had left but chose "alternative medicines" instead. The discourse in those online communities is not that you should appreciate the time you have left but that they can heal you. Those are two very different situations and while the outcome is sadly identical, they should not be conflated.
- DoctorOetker 6y ago
  > The discourse in those online communities is not that you should appreciate the time you have left but that they can heal you. The sedatives and painkillers, are the biochemical discourse that you feel like you heal / healed. When my father was dying from cancer, the doctors said his treatment was curative not palliative, which is essentially the same discourse you are offended with.
  - Znafon 6y ago
    I'm sorry you had to go through this. I'm not offended, I'm pointing out how the situation differs. If doctors gives inaccurate information, it's an important problem that needs to be discussed. > the doctors said his treatment was curative not palliative In the present case, it seems like it was not the case: "At the time, Sean’s doctors told him he had at least a 50% chance of long-term survival if he underwent chemotherapy", while the alternative medicines gave false information: "Sean also relied on "thermographic scans" - heat images of the body" or "I’d use words like, 'oh no it’s the Herxheimer’s reaction'". It seems to me like we are preaching for the same thing, which is to give the correct information to the patient and let him decide.
cwhiz 6y ago
From the article the doctors estimated his long term survival at 50%. So he wasn’t just trading chemo for a few months. He could have lived a long life.
ks6g10 6y ago
I would say chemo and cancer is very individual, you and doctors will look at the statistics and be pessimistic, they because they don't want to give you false expectations, since setbacks are probably harder to fight than no progress. And you because you don't have the personal experience with cancer yet. You have X chance of Z time, etc. But that's statistics, you as an individual will often fall in the normal range in your stratified group. Except when you don't. 27 Years old, I was dying of cancer really bad, it is worse than chemo, I didnt know it, but I was dying very bad. It felt like the worst flu ever, with constant cold symptoms, fatigue and night sweats, it was so bad I had to change several times a night. It was terrible. When I was diagnosed with stage 4 bowel cancer with secondary cancer in my liver, I thought that was it, I have screwed up bad and should have gone to the doctor earlier. The first meeting with my oncologist he said the chemotherapy is to give you time, it is not a cure. I didnt ask how long, it is nothing I want to know. He said he will throw what ever he can at me, since I am fit and young. Even though there was no reassurance, I felt much better after this. So chemo, it sucks, I was on a 2 week cycle routine, which meant usually, go to the clinic on Thursday, get 3 different drugs over 3-4 hours. Some are fine, like oxaliplatin (and quite interesting when its cold outside), others hit you right in the head like irinotecan (this one sucks bad, kicks you in the head hard and make you feel sick), and finally 5fu which is much milder than irinotecan. The 5fu I would get as a pump which administered it over 46 hours or so at home. So Thursday, on the day I feel bad when administered, would say a 3 when irinotecan hits. Afterwards mby a 6 or 7. I would have energy to work this day if I wanted. Friday, did go to work some days with my pump. Feeling probably a 5-6, energy a 7. Saturday, pump disconnected and the fatigue starts to hit, Feeling probably a 5, energy a 5. Sunday, Feeling probably a 4, energy a 3. Monday, Feeling probably a 3-4, energy a 2-3. Tuesday, Feeling probably a 4, energy a 4. Wednesday, Feeling probably a 5, energy a 5. Thursday, Feeling probably a 6, energy a 6. ... It would improve until the next Thursday where I would be feeling probably a 8, energy a 8-9. So by the time you go back for more chemo you would feel quite good. So on average I worked one week every two weeks. Now, as soon as I started chemo, much of my cancer symptoms started to melt away, no more gut wrenching pain in my bowels, no more regular night sweats because my liver is shutting down, not feeling like having a flu, this is after 2-3 cycles of chemo. Chemo can make your quality of life better, it did it for me. Chemo sucks and I was lucky that I found ways to eat, keep my weight and stay healthy and positive. In the end, I managed to have liver surgery and bowel surgery and am now cancer free. My oncologist didnt think that I would survive until surgery, and was lucky my chemo was soooo effective. 1 year from diagnosis to cancer free, I am lucky. But of course, this is an individual experience, but I would say, dying of cancer suck more than chemo, for me.
dependenttypes 6y ago
> I can understand why he wouldn't want to go through it again Especially after having gone through the broken NHS system once. If I was in his position I too would do anything to avoid them, although I admit that if I were him I would rather move to a country with a better healthcare system than use weird snakeoil magic cancer curing items.

selectodude 6y ago

In the beginning, chemo can actually give you a couple days per week of normality before it knocks you on your ass. I remember chemo saturday, sleep sunday, mon/tue/wed were pretty good, thur/friday decline, chemo again saturday. It's not an all or nothing proposition. It can give you an extra few months of normality, even if you end up dying at the same time.

Nextgrid 6y ago

But in this case he didn't really have a choice. His attempt at an "alternative" therapy at best didn't have any effect, and by the looks of it it didn't really give him good quality of life either as his health was deteriorating.

buitreVirtual 6y ago
The doctors said he actually had a 50% or better chance of recovery.

masklinn 6y ago

Preferring quality of life to heavy-handed treatments is perfectly acceptable to me, but the article doesn't read like that was the intent here. "Sean" was not looking to let nature run its course.

Znafon 6y ago

> What's the point of getting more months of life, if you can't do anything? I sympathise with the way you feel, but here he did not refused treatment to better live the time he had left but chose "alternative medicines" instead. The discourse in those online communities is not that you should appreciate the time you have left but that they can heal you. Those are two very different situations and while the outcome is sadly identical, they should not be conflated.

DoctorOetker 6y ago
> The discourse in those online communities is not that you should appreciate the time you have left but that they can heal you. The sedatives and painkillers, are the biochemical discourse that you feel like you heal / healed. When my father was dying from cancer, the doctors said his treatment was curative not palliative, which is essentially the same discourse you are offended with.
- Znafon 6y ago
  I'm sorry you had to go through this. I'm not offended, I'm pointing out how the situation differs. If doctors gives inaccurate information, it's an important problem that needs to be discussed. > the doctors said his treatment was curative not palliative In the present case, it seems like it was not the case: "At the time, Sean’s doctors told him he had at least a 50% chance of long-term survival if he underwent chemotherapy", while the alternative medicines gave false information: "Sean also relied on "thermographic scans" - heat images of the body" or "I’d use words like, 'oh no it’s the Herxheimer’s reaction'". It seems to me like we are preaching for the same thing, which is to give the correct information to the patient and let him decide.

cwhiz 6y ago

From the article the doctors estimated his long term survival at 50%. So he wasn’t just trading chemo for a few months. He could have lived a long life.

ks6g10 6y ago

I would say chemo and cancer is very individual, you and doctors will look at the statistics and be pessimistic, they because they don't want to give you false expectations, since setbacks are probably harder to fight than no progress. And you because you don't have the personal experience with cancer yet. You have X chance of Z time, etc. But that's statistics, you as an individual will often fall in the normal range in your stratified group. Except when you don't. 27 Years old, I was dying of cancer really bad, it is worse than chemo, I didnt know it, but I was dying very bad. It felt like the worst flu ever, with constant cold symptoms, fatigue and night sweats, it was so bad I had to change several times a night. It was terrible. When I was diagnosed with stage 4 bowel cancer with secondary cancer in my liver, I thought that was it, I have screwed up bad and should have gone to the doctor earlier. The first meeting with my oncologist he said the chemotherapy is to give you time, it is not a cure. I didnt ask how long, it is nothing I want to know. He said he will throw what ever he can at me, since I am fit and young. Even though there was no reassurance, I felt much better after this. So chemo, it sucks, I was on a 2 week cycle routine, which meant usually, go to the clinic on Thursday, get 3 different drugs over 3-4 hours. Some are fine, like oxaliplatin (and quite interesting when its cold outside), others hit you right in the head like irinotecan (this one sucks bad, kicks you in the head hard and make you feel sick), and finally 5fu which is much milder than irinotecan. The 5fu I would get as a pump which administered it over 46 hours or so at home. So Thursday, on the day I feel bad when administered, would say a 3 when irinotecan hits. Afterwards mby a 6 or 7. I would have energy to work this day if I wanted. Friday, did go to work some days with my pump. Feeling probably a 5-6, energy a 7. Saturday, pump disconnected and the fatigue starts to hit, Feeling probably a 5, energy a 5. Sunday, Feeling probably a 4, energy a 3. Monday, Feeling probably a 3-4, energy a 2-3. Tuesday, Feeling probably a 4, energy a 4. Wednesday, Feeling probably a 5, energy a 5. Thursday, Feeling probably a 6, energy a 6. ... It would improve until the next Thursday where I would be feeling probably a 8, energy a 8-9. So by the time you go back for more chemo you would feel quite good. So on average I worked one week every two weeks. Now, as soon as I started chemo, much of my cancer symptoms started to melt away, no more gut wrenching pain in my bowels, no more regular night sweats because my liver is shutting down, not feeling like having a flu, this is after 2-3 cycles of chemo. Chemo can make your quality of life better, it did it for me. Chemo sucks and I was lucky that I found ways to eat, keep my weight and stay healthy and positive. In the end, I managed to have liver surgery and bowel surgery and am now cancer free. My oncologist didnt think that I would survive until surgery, and was lucky my chemo was soooo effective. 1 year from diagnosis to cancer free, I am lucky. But of course, this is an individual experience, but I would say, dying of cancer suck more than chemo, for me.

dependenttypes 6y ago

> I can understand why he wouldn't want to go through it again Especially after having gone through the broken NHS system once. If I was in his position I too would do anything to avoid them, although I admit that if I were him I would rather move to a country with a better healthcare system than use weird snakeoil magic cancer curing items.