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So you think it would be better under a different political leader? I think it’s great that you’re still such an optimist

shreyansj 6y ago
Different political leader - we don't know. A different political leader who was not divisive and dismissive of science - yes, it would have been better.
- chosenbreed37 6y ago
  That's true. A counterpoint is Japan or Sweden where citizens changed their behaviour prior to any government action. Social distancing, avoiding bars, public transport, staying away from elderly relatives, face masks, etc etc. I think it's a sad state of affairs if people only take action under the instruction from a government.
- bjustin 6y ago
  I do think more or less any other leader likely would have done at least a little better. But if the same events in late 2019/early 2020 had happened under President Obama in 2015/2016 instead, I think it likely that many people in the opposing party would have ended up taking the same anti-science positions we see now. Federal action would have made the pandemic less bad but individuals and other levels of government could still have caused problems.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    Only Nixon could go to China. Imagine how much different things would have been if Trump had embraced the CDC and science like the other nations did. His followers would have gone along with it.
scarface74 6y ago
On the state level, no sane governor would sue mayors for requiring face masks. https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/16/georgia-mayors-brian-kemp-face-masks-366497 https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/16/georgia-mayors-bria... On the federal level, no sane President would go out of his way to force states to give the CDC less information. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/us/politics/trump-cdc-coronavirus.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/us/politics/trump-cdc-cor...
harimau777 6y ago
I think there would probably still be systemic problems, but I don't see how anyone could think that it wouldn't be better under another leader. Trump is overtly incompetent.
sfteus 6y ago
If you're trying to tell me that you think we wouldn't be better off with a leader that said this was a present and real threat and put out a mandatory mask order back in Feb/March, shut down travel and enforced travel quarantines, used the Defense Production Act to create and deliver PPE where needed, didn't confiscate PPE from states and re-sell it to the highest bidder, didn't publicly contradict the pandemic response team and CDC, implemented an effective national testing and contact tracing strategy, etc, then I'd say you're not here for an honest dialogue.
s5300 6y ago
Well, the last administration literally made something called “Playbook for Early Response to High-Consequence Emerging Infectious Disease Threats and Biological Incidents.” AKA how to handle a pandemic for dummies What did our current administration do? Claim it at first did not exist, and then definitely didn't look at it when they were informed it did exist. Really, you're not putting any effort in your trolling/cynicism
jimbokun 6y ago
> So you think it would be better under a different political leader? No US President in my living memory would have screwed this up as badly as Donald Trump has.

shreyansj 6y ago

Different political leader - we don't know. A different political leader who was not divisive and dismissive of science - yes, it would have been better.

chosenbreed37 6y ago
That's true. A counterpoint is Japan or Sweden where citizens changed their behaviour prior to any government action. Social distancing, avoiding bars, public transport, staying away from elderly relatives, face masks, etc etc. I think it's a sad state of affairs if people only take action under the instruction from a government.
bjustin 6y ago
I do think more or less any other leader likely would have done at least a little better. But if the same events in late 2019/early 2020 had happened under President Obama in 2015/2016 instead, I think it likely that many people in the opposing party would have ended up taking the same anti-science positions we see now. Federal action would have made the pandemic less bad but individuals and other levels of government could still have caused problems.
- scarface74 6y ago
  Only Nixon could go to China. Imagine how much different things would have been if Trump had embraced the CDC and science like the other nations did. His followers would have gone along with it.

scarface74 6y ago

On the state level, no sane governor would sue mayors for requiring face masks. https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/16/georgia-mayors-brian-kemp-face-masks-366497 https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/16/georgia-mayors-bria... On the federal level, no sane President would go out of his way to force states to give the CDC less information. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/us/politics/trump-cdc-coronavirus.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/us/politics/trump-cdc-cor...

harimau777 6y ago

I think there would probably still be systemic problems, but I don't see how anyone could think that it wouldn't be better under another leader. Trump is overtly incompetent.

sfteus 6y ago

If you're trying to tell me that you think we wouldn't be better off with a leader that said this was a present and real threat and put out a mandatory mask order back in Feb/March, shut down travel and enforced travel quarantines, used the Defense Production Act to create and deliver PPE where needed, didn't confiscate PPE from states and re-sell it to the highest bidder, didn't publicly contradict the pandemic response team and CDC, implemented an effective national testing and contact tracing strategy, etc, then I'd say you're not here for an honest dialogue.

s5300 6y ago

Well, the last administration literally made something called “Playbook for Early Response to High-Consequence Emerging Infectious Disease Threats and Biological Incidents.” AKA how to handle a pandemic for dummies What did our current administration do? Claim it at first did not exist, and then definitely didn't look at it when they were informed it did exist. Really, you're not putting any effort in your trolling/cynicism

jimbokun 6y ago

> So you think it would be better under a different political leader? No US President in my living memory would have screwed this up as badly as Donald Trump has.