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I live in downtown Portland. A few bad apples breaking some windows does not justify the federal government overstepping their bounds and surprising political a

I live in downtown Portland. A few bad apples breaking some windows does not justify the federal government overstepping their bounds and surprising political activism. Things were drastically improving until the Federal government showed up in full camouflage uniforms and started antagonizing people.

alexfromapex 6y ago
This isn’t breaking windows, there have been people murdered and millions of dollars in damages. What was improving?
- snogaraleal 6y ago
  What's funny is that it doesn't matter whether it was improving or not. Law is law. You don't stop chasing criminals just because criminality is down.
  - thecolorblue 6y ago
    > You don't stop chasing criminals just because criminality is down. The process of arresting and charging those who have broken the law should not change either.
    - snogaraleal 6y ago
      Yet it seems to have changed nation-wide in order to accommodate those who are "protesting". You can't get it both ways.
  - mnm1 6y ago
    Why let innocence get in the way of chasing people down? That's the argument police unions have been making for years. Whenever society wants to improve and decriminalize something, it can't because the fucking cops want to have easy arrest targets. Fuck them. At least now we can stop pretending we don't live in a police state.
    - snogaraleal 6y ago
      > Why let innocence get in the way of chasing people down? That's what I would ask BLM protestors making people kneel on the basis of their gender, skin, or job, in the same ironic tone.
      - grumio 6y ago
        >BLM protestors making people kneel Source? Any videos of BLM protestors forcing people to kneel?
        snogaraleal 6y ago
        Just look at a mirror. :)
        dang 6y ago
        Please stop posting flamewar comments to HN. It's not what this site is for, it destroys what it is for, and your comments in this thread have unfortunately created the worst parts of it. We ban such accounts, so please don't do it again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        snogaraleal 6y ago
        Please, go ahead. I wanted to delete my account but HN isn't even GDPR compliant.
      - entropea 6y ago
        >That's what I would ask BLM protestors making people kneel on the basis of their gender, skin, or job, in the same ironic tone. "Making"? I don't think that's true. People are doing it in respect of black lives, unlike when people are forcibly being abducted by unmarked federal police.
        6y ago
- charwalker 6y ago
  And billions of dollars looted from the PPP and US treasury while the media conflated protesters with the bad actors running amok. If you weren't in the protests, read accounts of those who were like the recent overview in the New Yorker. When a movement that starts with taking a knee is vilified, attacked, and denied legitimacy what other options are there to make their voices heard? Meanwhile, taxpayers have been robbed blind by the damage to our infrastructure by looters yes but also corruption, greed, and abuse of power not seen at this scale in the entire history of our democracy. Even the Secretary of Transportation and Husband, Mitch McConnell, made off with millions in loans paid for by your tax dollars. The current USPS head, who may be slowing delivery to damage the agency, may be taking direction from a guy whose old company received $700 million in bailout even though it is only worth 1/10 of that. You and I might have seen $1200. Millionaires got $135 Billion in tax loopholes. That's more than hospitals were allocated to deal with the virus. So do go ahead and complain about looters at protesters. It's important their bad behavior be recognized and flushed out. But don't lose sight of the larger issue, billions of taxpayer dollars going to the rich, donors to the current administration, and even directly to members of the administration and GOP party leadership. The corruption is obscene. A New Yorker in Minneapolis: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/06/22/the-heart-of-the-uprising-in-minneapolis https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/06/22/the-heart-of-t... USPS issues: https://www.salon.com/2020/07/15/disturbing-memo-reveals-trumps-usps-chief-has-slowed-delivery-amid-calls-to-expand-voting-by-mail/ https://www.salon.com/2020/07/15/disturbing-memo-reveals-tru... Millionaires: https://www.forbes.com/sites/shaharziv/2020/04/27/proposal-unveiled-to-repeal-the-17-million-stimulus-check-loophole-for-rich-americans/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/shaharziv/2020/04/27/proposal-u...
- rudolph9 6y ago
  Keep in mind I live downtown. A 1000 sq/ft apartment costs about a million dollars in downtown Portland so let’s not let our imaginations get the best of here. And how many people have been murdered as a result of the protests? Please stop fear mongering.
  - aerostable_slug 6y ago
    >And how many people have been murdered as a result of the protests? At least two: the 16 year old boy killed in Seattle and the 8 year old girl killed in Atlanta. They were both shot by BLM "security". And they were both Black. EDIT: Downvoted for facts? What is this, Reddit? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8480217/PICTURED-16-year-old-boy-shot-dead-inside-CHOP.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8480217/PICTURED-16... https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/breaking-atlanta-police-release-footage-suspect-year-old-shooting-death/2zQeUA3HiSsPCUEjnTdKEK/ https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/breaking-atlanta-police-...
    - rtkwe 6y ago
      Those are a) different cities and b) basically background radiation in terms of violence. There are about 30 gun murders a day in the US having two over this many weeks in two major cities is regrettable but statistically nothing.
      - aerostable_slug 6y ago
        They were both killed as a direct result of the protests, they were ironically Black children, and they were both shot by people acting as armed "security" manning barricades. I am not sure how that doesn't answer the question about murders. Two may not be a lot (along with those merely shot), but they are still dead.
        rtkwe 6y ago
        > Two may not be a lot (along with those merely shot), but they are still dead. It's a problem when you try to use it as an example of the protests being lawless and violent as a justification for extreme police responses and unidentified federal agencies arresting people in a different city.
- aedocw 6y ago
  Citation for protestors in Portland murdering people? Citation for "millions of dollars in damages"? Yes there have been broken windows, and there were significant riots in the immediate aftermath of George Floyd's murder. Since then (and absolute in the last 6 weeks) the protests have been peaceful with the exception of a few broken windows and some graffiti. Absolutely not millions of dollars in damage.
snogaraleal 6y ago
It's not the window breaking that justifies federal intervention, it's the local government acting as if the Rule of Law was optional that justifies federal intervention.
- mactrey 6y ago
  Do you live in or near downtown Portland? Because I do, and I can assertively state that the rule of law had not broken down prior to the arrival of federal agents. Walking around downtown recently and finding little more than a single broken window and an "I'm hatin' it" spray-painted on a McDonald's makes this kind of fearmongering comment truly laughable.
  - snogaraleal 6y ago
    You can assertively say it? It's not just that you can say it, but you can ASSERTIVELY say it!? I mean Jesus that changes things. What are you waiting for? Go tell Orange-man that the socialists ASSERTIVELY say everything is fine and that the claims of social unrest are TRULY laughable. Says the socialist, using adverbs as a substitute for thought.
  - mrguyorama 6y ago
    I was told that my city of Portland Maine had riots going on by people living 300 miles away. We had a couple hundred people laying on the ground in front of a police station. The over-exaggeration of people and sources negative towards the causes of these protests is astounding
  - asguy 6y ago
    Where do you live downtown? I witnessed rioters shooting mortars at PPB on the 4th of July. PPB sent teargas and flash bangs back at them. SW Broadway and Main looked like a war zone. They’ve been lighting fires around 3rd for weeks. The park around the justice center looks like a set from Escape From New York. The Feds showing up didn’t start this. This nonsense has been going on in spurts since 2016.
- grumio 6y ago

alexfromapex 6y ago

This isn’t breaking windows, there have been people murdered and millions of dollars in damages. What was improving?

snogaraleal 6y ago
What's funny is that it doesn't matter whether it was improving or not. Law is law. You don't stop chasing criminals just because criminality is down.
- thecolorblue 6y ago
  > You don't stop chasing criminals just because criminality is down. The process of arresting and charging those who have broken the law should not change either.
  - snogaraleal 6y ago
    Yet it seems to have changed nation-wide in order to accommodate those who are "protesting". You can't get it both ways.
- mnm1 6y ago
  Why let innocence get in the way of chasing people down? That's the argument police unions have been making for years. Whenever society wants to improve and decriminalize something, it can't because the fucking cops want to have easy arrest targets. Fuck them. At least now we can stop pretending we don't live in a police state.
  - snogaraleal 6y ago
    > Why let innocence get in the way of chasing people down? That's what I would ask BLM protestors making people kneel on the basis of their gender, skin, or job, in the same ironic tone.
    - grumio 6y ago
      >BLM protestors making people kneel Source? Any videos of BLM protestors forcing people to kneel?
      - snogaraleal 6y ago
        Just look at a mirror. :)
        dang 6y ago
        Please stop posting flamewar comments to HN. It's not what this site is for, it destroys what it is for, and your comments in this thread have unfortunately created the worst parts of it. We ban such accounts, so please don't do it again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        snogaraleal 6y ago
        Please, go ahead. I wanted to delete my account but HN isn't even GDPR compliant.
    - entropea 6y ago
      >That's what I would ask BLM protestors making people kneel on the basis of their gender, skin, or job, in the same ironic tone. "Making"? I don't think that's true. People are doing it in respect of black lives, unlike when people are forcibly being abducted by unmarked federal police.
      - 6y ago
charwalker 6y ago
And billions of dollars looted from the PPP and US treasury while the media conflated protesters with the bad actors running amok. If you weren't in the protests, read accounts of those who were like the recent overview in the New Yorker. When a movement that starts with taking a knee is vilified, attacked, and denied legitimacy what other options are there to make their voices heard? Meanwhile, taxpayers have been robbed blind by the damage to our infrastructure by looters yes but also corruption, greed, and abuse of power not seen at this scale in the entire history of our democracy. Even the Secretary of Transportation and Husband, Mitch McConnell, made off with millions in loans paid for by your tax dollars. The current USPS head, who may be slowing delivery to damage the agency, may be taking direction from a guy whose old company received $700 million in bailout even though it is only worth 1/10 of that. You and I might have seen $1200. Millionaires got $135 Billion in tax loopholes. That's more than hospitals were allocated to deal with the virus. So do go ahead and complain about looters at protesters. It's important their bad behavior be recognized and flushed out. But don't lose sight of the larger issue, billions of taxpayer dollars going to the rich, donors to the current administration, and even directly to members of the administration and GOP party leadership. The corruption is obscene. A New Yorker in Minneapolis: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/06/22/the-heart-of-the-uprising-in-minneapolis https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/06/22/the-heart-of-t... USPS issues: https://www.salon.com/2020/07/15/disturbing-memo-reveals-trumps-usps-chief-has-slowed-delivery-amid-calls-to-expand-voting-by-mail/ https://www.salon.com/2020/07/15/disturbing-memo-reveals-tru... Millionaires: https://www.forbes.com/sites/shaharziv/2020/04/27/proposal-unveiled-to-repeal-the-17-million-stimulus-check-loophole-for-rich-americans/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/shaharziv/2020/04/27/proposal-u...
rudolph9 6y ago
Keep in mind I live downtown. A 1000 sq/ft apartment costs about a million dollars in downtown Portland so let’s not let our imaginations get the best of here. And how many people have been murdered as a result of the protests? Please stop fear mongering.
- aerostable_slug 6y ago
  >And how many people have been murdered as a result of the protests? At least two: the 16 year old boy killed in Seattle and the 8 year old girl killed in Atlanta. They were both shot by BLM "security". And they were both Black. EDIT: Downvoted for facts? What is this, Reddit? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8480217/PICTURED-16-year-old-boy-shot-dead-inside-CHOP.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8480217/PICTURED-16... https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/breaking-atlanta-police-release-footage-suspect-year-old-shooting-death/2zQeUA3HiSsPCUEjnTdKEK/ https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/breaking-atlanta-police-...
  - rtkwe 6y ago
    Those are a) different cities and b) basically background radiation in terms of violence. There are about 30 gun murders a day in the US having two over this many weeks in two major cities is regrettable but statistically nothing.
    - aerostable_slug 6y ago
      They were both killed as a direct result of the protests, they were ironically Black children, and they were both shot by people acting as armed "security" manning barricades. I am not sure how that doesn't answer the question about murders. Two may not be a lot (along with those merely shot), but they are still dead.
      - rtkwe 6y ago
        > Two may not be a lot (along with those merely shot), but they are still dead. It's a problem when you try to use it as an example of the protests being lawless and violent as a justification for extreme police responses and unidentified federal agencies arresting people in a different city.
aedocw 6y ago
Citation for protestors in Portland murdering people? Citation for "millions of dollars in damages"? Yes there have been broken windows, and there were significant riots in the immediate aftermath of George Floyd's murder. Since then (and absolute in the last 6 weeks) the protests have been peaceful with the exception of a few broken windows and some graffiti. Absolutely not millions of dollars in damage.

snogaraleal 6y ago

It's not the window breaking that justifies federal intervention, it's the local government acting as if the Rule of Law was optional that justifies federal intervention.

mactrey 6y ago
Do you live in or near downtown Portland? Because I do, and I can assertively state that the rule of law had not broken down prior to the arrival of federal agents. Walking around downtown recently and finding little more than a single broken window and an "I'm hatin' it" spray-painted on a McDonald's makes this kind of fearmongering comment truly laughable.
- snogaraleal 6y ago
  You can assertively say it? It's not just that you can say it, but you can ASSERTIVELY say it!? I mean Jesus that changes things. What are you waiting for? Go tell Orange-man that the socialists ASSERTIVELY say everything is fine and that the claims of social unrest are TRULY laughable. Says the socialist, using adverbs as a substitute for thought.
- mrguyorama 6y ago
  I was told that my city of Portland Maine had riots going on by people living 300 miles away. We had a couple hundred people laying on the ground in front of a police station. The over-exaggeration of people and sources negative towards the causes of these protests is astounding
- asguy 6y ago
  Where do you live downtown? I witnessed rioters shooting mortars at PPB on the 4th of July. PPB sent teargas and flash bangs back at them. SW Broadway and Main looked like a war zone. They’ve been lighting fires around 3rd for weeks. The park around the justice center looks like a set from Escape From New York. The Feds showing up didn’t start this. This nonsense has been going on in spurts since 2016.
grumio 6y ago