5 ms·

Why are nurses and grocery workers working then? How are they less at risk than teachers?

searine 6y ago
In both those cases exposure is much different. Nurses largely have the PPE needed to deal with covid and have been trained to do so. Store workers have far less exposure than a teacher trying to wrangle 30 kids for 8 hours a day.
- collegecamp293 6y ago
  I would argue store workers have much higher exposure due to thousands of customers touching surfaces throughout the store everyday
  - leetrout 6y ago
    Agree! Comment I made the other day: > What bothers me the most is that just like retail / grocery store workers we put people with the lowest earning potential and generally worst benefits directly in the path of this. I don’t want to get COVID but unless I convince my wife to quit her job my odds of getting it greatly increase due to situations out of my control.
    - aquadrop 6y ago
      Recently there came out huge serology study from Spain and according to it retail workers didn't have higher covid rates.
  - searine 6y ago
    Transmission is largely by aerosol over long periods of time, not fomites. Store workers are relatively distant and contact with any one person is brief. With teachers, every surface is constantly touched and they spend all day with the children. Store workers are also dealing with adults rather than children. Most adults know how to conduct themselves in a pandemic, most of them...
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    Thus far, surface transmission seems to be low. If you're not licking the payment terminal, you're likely OK in that regard. Length of exposure to an infected person matters a lot. Spending a day in a room with an infected person is riskier than a 60 second interaction with one as you ring them up.
3pt14159 6y ago
I don't know if they're at more or less risk and I don't know the stats on how many of them have chosen not to work, but if I had to guess I'd say that nurses feel a sense of duty as part of their chosen line of work and that grocery workers are easier to replace for those that chose not to work.
MarcScott 6y ago
Medical staff get to wear PPE. As for grocery workers: My wife's a teacher. She was back in school for a day last week, with a much smaller class of children. The first thing one of her children tried to do on seeing her was give her a hug. I doubt this happens to many grocery workers. In September she'll spend about six hours a day in a poorly ventilated and inadequately sized classroom with 30 children. Neither she nor the children are allowed to wear masks or gloves. From the single days she has been in each week, she's watched children unable to maintain social distancing in the classroom or the playground. They cough, sneeze and wipe their noses on their hands and then touch everything. That's what kids are like.
- leetrout 6y ago
  > poorly ventilated and inadequately sized classroom BINGO. That's what has bothered me the most and I've talked a lot to my wife about what we can do to mitigate the risk. > Neither she nor the children are allowed to wear masks or gloves How is that enforceable? Seems like they shouldn't be allowed to mandate no masks given the documented health risks.
  - hysan 6y ago
    Because if they didn’t, they’d get pushback from teachers unions demanding schools provide masks (and soap, sanitizer, etc.). What most of America does not realize is how little money American schools on average spend on school supplies. Most teachers pay out of pocket for the majority of school supplies (on top of their already low pay). So as with most things that make no sense, it’s enforceable because there are people with significant sway up top that realize how much more money will be needed if they didn’t enforce it.
    - leetrout 6y ago
      My wife is a teacher so I understand the situation intimately. I do not see how saying "no one is allowed to wear as mask" as a policy is OK when someone can provider their own PPE.
TheCoelacanth 6y ago
They aren't, but they are necessary to sustain life unlike teachers.
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  Teachers are necessary to sustain civilization, at least in the medium to long term.
vmchale 6y ago
I have 0 confidence that public schools have the same care w.r.t. ventilation and plumbing that hospitals do.
mrlala 6y ago
Well I would say even a grocery worker is safer because * They are generally working in a much larger space like a big store, so not confined into a small classroom * The small space teachers are in are filled with kids that are obviously the most unhygienic. Try as they will, it's way more risky than being filled with adults(ok lots of adults that are less responsible than a 5 year old, I know) who are wearing masks and attempting to keep distancing
sfteus 6y ago
Grocery store workers don't spend 8 hours a day in a crowded room with kids who won't keep their PPE on, won't adequately wash their hands, want to give their teachers hugs / high fives, etc. Cashiers get to stand several feet away from those checking out, can put up plexiglass barriers, can slow down the checkout process a bit to sanitize between customers. Hospitals are designed to prevent infectious disease spread. They plan for mass sanitation, employees wearing PPE, minimizing disease vectors. My wife's hospital has changed their policy to no outside visitors even on non-COVID floors. You can't do that in a school. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not trying to downplay the sacrifice essential employees are making right now; they absolutely deserve hazard pay among so much else for putting themselves at risk for the benefit of everyone else. I asked my wife at the beginning of this if she wanted to quit, and we'd find a way to make it work, and she said "I'm a nurse, I signed up for this." That's just her mindset; she's been trained to work in a contagious environment and her hospital has many ways to help keep her safe. Asking teachers to take on that responsibility in addition to what we already ask of them, while being inside a petri dish of disease spreading is 100% irresponsible to everyone involved.

In both those cases exposure is much different. Nurses largely have the PPE needed to deal with covid and have been trained to do so. Store workers have far less exposure than a teacher trying to wrangle 30 kids for 8 hours a day.

collegecamp293 6y ago
I would argue store workers have much higher exposure due to thousands of customers touching surfaces throughout the store everyday
- leetrout 6y ago
  Agree! Comment I made the other day: > What bothers me the most is that just like retail / grocery store workers we put people with the lowest earning potential and generally worst benefits directly in the path of this. I don’t want to get COVID but unless I convince my wife to quit her job my odds of getting it greatly increase due to situations out of my control.
  - aquadrop 6y ago
    Recently there came out huge serology study from Spain and according to it retail workers didn't have higher covid rates.
- searine 6y ago
  Transmission is largely by aerosol over long periods of time, not fomites. Store workers are relatively distant and contact with any one person is brief. With teachers, every surface is constantly touched and they spend all day with the children. Store workers are also dealing with adults rather than children. Most adults know how to conduct themselves in a pandemic, most of them...
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  Thus far, surface transmission seems to be low. If you're not licking the payment terminal, you're likely OK in that regard. Length of exposure to an infected person matters a lot. Spending a day in a room with an infected person is riskier than a 60 second interaction with one as you ring them up.

3pt14159 6y ago

I don't know if they're at more or less risk and I don't know the stats on how many of them have chosen not to work, but if I had to guess I'd say that nurses feel a sense of duty as part of their chosen line of work and that grocery workers are easier to replace for those that chose not to work.

MarcScott 6y ago

Medical staff get to wear PPE. As for grocery workers: My wife's a teacher. She was back in school for a day last week, with a much smaller class of children. The first thing one of her children tried to do on seeing her was give her a hug. I doubt this happens to many grocery workers. In September she'll spend about six hours a day in a poorly ventilated and inadequately sized classroom with 30 children. Neither she nor the children are allowed to wear masks or gloves. From the single days she has been in each week, she's watched children unable to maintain social distancing in the classroom or the playground. They cough, sneeze and wipe their noses on their hands and then touch everything. That's what kids are like.

leetrout 6y ago
> poorly ventilated and inadequately sized classroom BINGO. That's what has bothered me the most and I've talked a lot to my wife about what we can do to mitigate the risk. > Neither she nor the children are allowed to wear masks or gloves How is that enforceable? Seems like they shouldn't be allowed to mandate no masks given the documented health risks.
- hysan 6y ago
  Because if they didn’t, they’d get pushback from teachers unions demanding schools provide masks (and soap, sanitizer, etc.). What most of America does not realize is how little money American schools on average spend on school supplies. Most teachers pay out of pocket for the majority of school supplies (on top of their already low pay). So as with most things that make no sense, it’s enforceable because there are people with significant sway up top that realize how much more money will be needed if they didn’t enforce it.
  - leetrout 6y ago
    My wife is a teacher so I understand the situation intimately. I do not see how saying "no one is allowed to wear as mask" as a policy is OK when someone can provider their own PPE.

TheCoelacanth 6y ago

They aren't, but they are necessary to sustain life unlike teachers.

AnimalMuppet 6y ago
Teachers are necessary to sustain civilization, at least in the medium to long term.

vmchale 6y ago

I have 0 confidence that public schools have the same care w.r.t. ventilation and plumbing that hospitals do.

mrlala 6y ago

Well I would say even a grocery worker is safer because * They are generally working in a much larger space like a big store, so not confined into a small classroom * The small space teachers are in are filled with kids that are obviously the most unhygienic. Try as they will, it's way more risky than being filled with adults(ok lots of adults that are less responsible than a 5 year old, I know) who are wearing masks and attempting to keep distancing

sfteus 6y ago

Grocery store workers don't spend 8 hours a day in a crowded room with kids who won't keep their PPE on, won't adequately wash their hands, want to give their teachers hugs / high fives, etc. Cashiers get to stand several feet away from those checking out, can put up plexiglass barriers, can slow down the checkout process a bit to sanitize between customers. Hospitals are designed to prevent infectious disease spread. They plan for mass sanitation, employees wearing PPE, minimizing disease vectors. My wife's hospital has changed their policy to no outside visitors even on non-COVID floors. You can't do that in a school. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not trying to downplay the sacrifice essential employees are making right now; they absolutely deserve hazard pay among so much else for putting themselves at risk for the benefit of everyone else. I asked my wife at the beginning of this if she wanted to quit, and we'd find a way to make it work, and she said "I'm a nurse, I signed up for this." That's just her mindset; she's been trained to work in a contagious environment and her hospital has many ways to help keep her safe. Asking teachers to take on that responsibility in addition to what we already ask of them, while being inside a petri dish of disease spreading is 100% irresponsible to everyone involved.