5 ms·

Previous theories concerning hitmen from Saudi Arabia, Nigerian gangs, Chinese government involvement, and other salacious tales were really something.

gruez 6y ago
>Previous theories concerning hitmen from Saudi Arabia, Nigerian gangs, Chinese government To be fair, >Detectives believe that the killer, dressed in a black three-piece suit, wearing a black mask and carrying a duffel bag https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_47 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_47
- catalogia 6y ago
  I read a comment on another forum that made a big deal of the briefcase in particular. If they were just memeing/shitposting on the story that's one thing, but a lot of people seemed to sincerely believe that briefcase or suit ownership was actual evidence of being a contract killer. The professional coordinated murderers of Mahmoud Al-Mabhouh were caught on surveillance cameras wearing totally unremarkable clothing. In real life, contract killers don't have uniforms. However I think it's interesting to consider the possibility that the killer in this case was essentially role-playing as a contract killer as portrayed by popular media.
  - md_ 6y ago
    This is an underrated comment. What's intriguing to me is the idea that not only might the killer have been (consciously or unconsciously) role-playing a "professional", but that the police were engaging in the same fantasy. There were under 200 homicides in NYC in 2020 (to date). Undoubtedly the slimmest minority (if any) were, in the way one imagines, "professional". So it seems safe to assume the homicide detectives might not have significant firsthand experience with which to say, "this seems like a professional job." I'm reminded a little bit of the Bellagio "Biker Bandit" (https://lasvegassun.com/news/2011/aug/23/bellagio-bandit-gets-3-11-years-15-million-chip-he/)--the https://lasvegassun.com/news/2011/aug/23/bellagio-bandit-get... whole thing seemed super professional (full-face motorcycle helmet, full body-suit, in-and-out in minutes)...but it turned out to be a dude with a gambling problem and an Oxy habit.
    - jjeaff 6y ago
      Ya, I think if it truly was a professional job, there would be no evidence for these cops to review.
      - trhway 6y ago
        or enough evidence pointing wrong way.
        catalogia 6y ago
        I think so. In the case of Mahmoud Al-Mabhouh, it was seemingly meant to look like natural causes: > Initially, Dubai authorities believed al-Mabhouh had died of natural causes.[44] Fawzi Benomran, the Dubai police coroner, said, "It was meant to look like death from natural causes during sleep." It took 10 days for the Dubai police to come to the conclusion that al-Mabhouh was assassinated. Benomran described the determination of the exact cause of death as "one of the most challenging cases" his department faced.[45] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Mahmoud_Al-Mabhouh#Cause_of_death https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Mahmoud_Al-Ma... The team that killed him were on camera entering the country and in the hotel. However if they had been successful in convincing local authorities the death was natural, that would have made the (presumably very difficult to avoid) video evidence effectively irrelevant because nobody would have thought to consider it relevant.
      - ls612 6y ago
        To be fair the only reason there was evidence was that they guy had to flee before he was done cleaning up. I don't blame the cops for their initial conclusions the level of premeditation in this murder was much higher than normal.
        kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
        A pro would get the job done without screaming.
      - md_ 6y ago
  - troughway 6y ago
    I guess the killer didn't watch The Matador then.
  - thekevan 6y ago
    >surveillance cameras wearing totally unremarkable clothing. In this case, it was a $2.25 million condo. A suit and tie may be unremarkable clothing in that area. Also, if Fahim was a jeans and t-shirt kind of guy like the numerous pictures of him suggest he may have been, the assistant may have normally been around the building in casual attire normally as well. A suit could have been out of character attire to mask his ID further.
    - xxxtentachyon 6y ago
      I live nearby, and a black suit and a tie would look pretty out of place that far east in Lower East Side, especially now
closeparen 6y ago
Murder is almost always personal. Even for people involved in conspiracy-adjacent stuff.
- johnmarinelli 6y ago
  yup. i'd be willing to bet that the guy who ordered it can be found in Mr. Saleh's follower/following list on instagram.
Redoubts 6y ago
We did it, Reddit.
- bgb54 6y ago
  That speculation, specifically an organized Saudi hit à la Khashoggi and leaning on geopolitics and business regulation to make its case, dominated the HN thread. The discussion was sprinkled with dumping on Nigeria’s systems and business environment, assuming because he wasn’t American that he had to borrow from shady characters, linking recent changes to his business to the killing, and panicked nailbiting over NYT descriptions of his condo hitting a little close to home. With few exceptions (such as accusing Saleh of being involved with cocaine), the examples I’ve mentioned found themselves steering the discussion, not downvoted in the slightest. I wish the HN guideline was “there’s no upside for anyone mentioning Reddit from an often glass house” instead of specifically calling out comparisons of this site to that one. When this forum dumps on Reddit, it walks away with an impression of superiority that could not be further from the truth. Observe my sibling. All forums have their problems and HN is not blessed with immunity. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23847195 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23847195 is the main overall thread, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23848397 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23848397 is another including smug necros, and there are many others.
  - Redoubts 6y ago
    This is the most HN post I've seen in a long time.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - kbenson 6y ago
    > When this forum dumps on Reddit, it walks away with an impression of superiority that could not be further from the truth. Observe my sibling. All forums have their problems and HN is not blessed with immunity. At the same time, I would rather HN have a false sense of superiority that sometimes keeps it from descending to the depths as people at least make the attempt sometimes to keep it better than that, rather than just accept that it's often no different, and thus excuse that behavior when it happens. That is, having the perception of superiority is helpful in as much as it allows comments like yours to have weight. Your comment on Reddit might be met with "well, duh, it's Reddit." Hopefully here some people are instead thinking about what they want this forum to be and whether they helped or hindered that. That's a bit pretentious of me to say, but I also think it's true.
Alex3917 6y ago
> Previous theories concerning hitmen from Saudi Arabia, Nigerian gangs, Chinese government involvement, and other salacious tales were really something. I mean everyone in the crypto space probably knows or at least knows of someone who has been cut up and dismembered, so it's not really that crazy. A lot of people here are founders, so that's the kind of thing we naturally worry about. I.e. you can probably get a better valuation if you skip the middlemen and go straight to family offices, especially ones in foreign countries, but then again if you take money from Ron Conway and things go sideways he's probably not going to send people to kill you.

gruez 6y ago

>Previous theories concerning hitmen from Saudi Arabia, Nigerian gangs, Chinese government To be fair, >Detectives believe that the killer, dressed in a black three-piece suit, wearing a black mask and carrying a duffel bag https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_47 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_47

catalogia 6y ago
I read a comment on another forum that made a big deal of the briefcase in particular. If they were just memeing/shitposting on the story that's one thing, but a lot of people seemed to sincerely believe that briefcase or suit ownership was actual evidence of being a contract killer. The professional coordinated murderers of Mahmoud Al-Mabhouh were caught on surveillance cameras wearing totally unremarkable clothing. In real life, contract killers don't have uniforms. However I think it's interesting to consider the possibility that the killer in this case was essentially role-playing as a contract killer as portrayed by popular media.
- md_ 6y ago
  This is an underrated comment. What's intriguing to me is the idea that not only might the killer have been (consciously or unconsciously) role-playing a "professional", but that the police were engaging in the same fantasy. There were under 200 homicides in NYC in 2020 (to date). Undoubtedly the slimmest minority (if any) were, in the way one imagines, "professional". So it seems safe to assume the homicide detectives might not have significant firsthand experience with which to say, "this seems like a professional job." I'm reminded a little bit of the Bellagio "Biker Bandit" (https://lasvegassun.com/news/2011/aug/23/bellagio-bandit-gets-3-11-years-15-million-chip-he/)--the https://lasvegassun.com/news/2011/aug/23/bellagio-bandit-get... whole thing seemed super professional (full-face motorcycle helmet, full body-suit, in-and-out in minutes)...but it turned out to be a dude with a gambling problem and an Oxy habit.
  - jjeaff 6y ago
    Ya, I think if it truly was a professional job, there would be no evidence for these cops to review.
    - trhway 6y ago
      or enough evidence pointing wrong way.
      - catalogia 6y ago
        I think so. In the case of Mahmoud Al-Mabhouh, it was seemingly meant to look like natural causes: > Initially, Dubai authorities believed al-Mabhouh had died of natural causes.[44] Fawzi Benomran, the Dubai police coroner, said, "It was meant to look like death from natural causes during sleep." It took 10 days for the Dubai police to come to the conclusion that al-Mabhouh was assassinated. Benomran described the determination of the exact cause of death as "one of the most challenging cases" his department faced.[45] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Mahmoud_Al-Mabhouh#Cause_of_death https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Mahmoud_Al-Ma... The team that killed him were on camera entering the country and in the hotel. However if they had been successful in convincing local authorities the death was natural, that would have made the (presumably very difficult to avoid) video evidence effectively irrelevant because nobody would have thought to consider it relevant.
    - ls612 6y ago
      To be fair the only reason there was evidence was that they guy had to flee before he was done cleaning up. I don't blame the cops for their initial conclusions the level of premeditation in this murder was much higher than normal.
      - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
        A pro would get the job done without screaming.
    - md_ 6y ago
- troughway 6y ago
  I guess the killer didn't watch The Matador then.
- thekevan 6y ago
  >surveillance cameras wearing totally unremarkable clothing. In this case, it was a $2.25 million condo. A suit and tie may be unremarkable clothing in that area. Also, if Fahim was a jeans and t-shirt kind of guy like the numerous pictures of him suggest he may have been, the assistant may have normally been around the building in casual attire normally as well. A suit could have been out of character attire to mask his ID further.
  - xxxtentachyon 6y ago
    I live nearby, and a black suit and a tie would look pretty out of place that far east in Lower East Side, especially now

closeparen 6y ago

Murder is almost always personal. Even for people involved in conspiracy-adjacent stuff.

johnmarinelli 6y ago
yup. i'd be willing to bet that the guy who ordered it can be found in Mr. Saleh's follower/following list on instagram.

Redoubts 6y ago

We did it, Reddit.

bgb54 6y ago
That speculation, specifically an organized Saudi hit à la Khashoggi and leaning on geopolitics and business regulation to make its case, dominated the HN thread. The discussion was sprinkled with dumping on Nigeria’s systems and business environment, assuming because he wasn’t American that he had to borrow from shady characters, linking recent changes to his business to the killing, and panicked nailbiting over NYT descriptions of his condo hitting a little close to home. With few exceptions (such as accusing Saleh of being involved with cocaine), the examples I’ve mentioned found themselves steering the discussion, not downvoted in the slightest. I wish the HN guideline was “there’s no upside for anyone mentioning Reddit from an often glass house” instead of specifically calling out comparisons of this site to that one. When this forum dumps on Reddit, it walks away with an impression of superiority that could not be further from the truth. Observe my sibling. All forums have their problems and HN is not blessed with immunity. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23847195 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23847195 is the main overall thread, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23848397 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23848397 is another including smug necros, and there are many others.
- Redoubts 6y ago
  This is the most HN post I've seen in a long time.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- kbenson 6y ago
  > When this forum dumps on Reddit, it walks away with an impression of superiority that could not be further from the truth. Observe my sibling. All forums have their problems and HN is not blessed with immunity. At the same time, I would rather HN have a false sense of superiority that sometimes keeps it from descending to the depths as people at least make the attempt sometimes to keep it better than that, rather than just accept that it's often no different, and thus excuse that behavior when it happens. That is, having the perception of superiority is helpful in as much as it allows comments like yours to have weight. Your comment on Reddit might be met with "well, duh, it's Reddit." Hopefully here some people are instead thinking about what they want this forum to be and whether they helped or hindered that. That's a bit pretentious of me to say, but I also think it's true.

Alex3917 6y ago

> Previous theories concerning hitmen from Saudi Arabia, Nigerian gangs, Chinese government involvement, and other salacious tales were really something. I mean everyone in the crypto space probably knows or at least knows of someone who has been cut up and dismembered, so it's not really that crazy. A lot of people here are founders, so that's the kind of thing we naturally worry about. I.e. you can probably get a better valuation if you skip the middlemen and go straight to family offices, especially ones in foreign countries, but then again if you take money from Ron Conway and things go sideways he's probably not going to send people to kill you.