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> Detectives believe that the motive for the killing stemmed from Mr. Saleh having discovered that the assistant had stolen tens of thousands of dollars from hi

> Detectives believe that the motive for the killing stemmed from Mr. Saleh having discovered that the assistant had stolen tens of thousands of dollars from him, despite the fact that Mr. Saleh had not reported the man and had set up what amounted to a repayment plan for him to return the money, one of the officials said. Amazing how far this is from all the early speculation. Also incredibly sad.

gk1 6y ago
What's amazing is how strongly people believe their own and others' speculation without any evidence. Look at what happened after the Boston Marathon bombing.
- ta17711771 6y ago
  People discovered the perpetrators ties to the FBI? Nah, definitely not what you meant. But it should have been.
  - voisin 6y ago
    Can you provide context for those of us unclear on what you are referring to?
    - dleslie 6y ago
      Not the person you responded to, however: https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2017/04/09/tamerlan-tsarnaev-fbi-informant/ https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2017/04/09/tamerlan-tsar... It shouldn't be surprising to find that bad people sometimes turn out to be under the observation of, or even interacting with, law enforcement.
- aaron695 6y ago
  It was years ago. If it's a problem people would have moved to a better example, not a years old case. OSINT is a thing. It's also pretty amazing. It is something HN can't do though. Smart people let conspiracies rise to the top and fear making a mistake by correcting them. The Reddit/Boston Marathon meme is a gate-keeping meme on OSINT. Don't lynch mob ever, but also don't fear intelligent speculation.
intro-b 6y ago
Previous theories concerning hitmen from Saudi Arabia, Nigerian gangs, Chinese government involvement, and other salacious tales were really something.
- gruez 6y ago
  >Previous theories concerning hitmen from Saudi Arabia, Nigerian gangs, Chinese government To be fair, >Detectives believe that the killer, dressed in a black three-piece suit, wearing a black mask and carrying a duffel bag https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_47 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_47
  - catalogia 6y ago
    I read a comment on another forum that made a big deal of the briefcase in particular. If they were just memeing/shitposting on the story that's one thing, but a lot of people seemed to sincerely believe that briefcase or suit ownership was actual evidence of being a contract killer. The professional coordinated murderers of Mahmoud Al-Mabhouh were caught on surveillance cameras wearing totally unremarkable clothing. In real life, contract killers don't have uniforms. However I think it's interesting to consider the possibility that the killer in this case was essentially role-playing as a contract killer as portrayed by popular media.
    - md_ 6y ago
      This is an underrated comment. What's intriguing to me is the idea that not only might the killer have been (consciously or unconsciously) role-playing a "professional", but that the police were engaging in the same fantasy. There were under 200 homicides in NYC in 2020 (to date). Undoubtedly the slimmest minority (if any) were, in the way one imagines, "professional". So it seems safe to assume the homicide detectives might not have significant firsthand experience with which to say, "this seems like a professional job." I'm reminded a little bit of the Bellagio "Biker Bandit" (https://lasvegassun.com/news/2011/aug/23/bellagio-bandit-gets-3-11-years-15-million-chip-he/)--the https://lasvegassun.com/news/2011/aug/23/bellagio-bandit-get... whole thing seemed super professional (full-face motorcycle helmet, full body-suit, in-and-out in minutes)...but it turned out to be a dude with a gambling problem and an Oxy habit.
zajd 6y ago
It's not really amazing, HN is incredibly xenophobic, just look at literally any thread that happens to mention China, even tangentially. I guess that's what happens when the majority of the userbase is well off Americans.
- dang 6y ago
  Last I ran the numbers, 50% of HN users were in the US. A lot of those are not Americans, since many HN users have come to the US from other countries. Moreover, a lot of the American userbase on HN are not "well off". So your assumption is far from correct. What HN certainly is, demographically, is majority Western. What you're seeing on China-related topics is the growing rift between China and the West, the same trend that shows up in Western media and no doubt Chinese media as well. I spend a lot of moderation time and energy arguing for understanding about this. But there's no way we can expect HN to be immune from macro social and geopolitical trends. There's no reason to believe that "HN is incredibly xenophobic" except insofar as human beings in general may be.
  - lostlogin 6y ago
    Having recently watched your efforts to moderate discussion in a US v China style debate, you have an unenviable position. Thanks for your work.
  - zajd 6y ago
    Well off westerners would definitely be more accurate. > a lot of the American userbase on HN are not "well off" Oh come on, get serious. This is a board focused on Tech, an industry where our the median/mean is well above almost any other field in the US.
    - dang 6y ago
      Sure, and equally obviously there are a lot of users below the median/mean. Millions of them, in fact. Some are below the poverty line. HN is more varied than you're assuming. That is actually the leading problem facing the community. People develop a distorted image of what the HN community is, and then when they encounter posts that contradict their image, they resort to antagonistic explanations that are harmful. The actual dynamic is this: many people here have wildly different backgrounds, and therefore strongly different views, than your own (I don't mean you personally, but all of us)—views which they come by as honestly as the rest of us come by ours. Yes there are bad actors, but users grossly overestimate the significance of that. We're far too quick to consign each other to the bad actor bucket, because we underestimate the variety and size of the genuine differences between us. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20%22shock%20experience%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
raincom 6y ago
Nothing wrong with unbounded speculation. Detectives have more facts to narrow the search space, whereas people online know a few facts: (a) CEO of a Nigerian start up; (b) regulatory problems in Nigeria; (c) fund raising. Don't blame the act of speculation; but blame the lack of additional facts.
interesting_att 6y ago
I was friends with Fahim and know personal information about this case. This kid absolutely did not do it, but it's easy to pin the blame on him. It absolutely was due to his work in Nigeria.
- raincom 6y ago
  Interesting to hear. You think detectives are colluding with Nigerians to 'the blame on him'?
- truethoughts 6y ago
  Stop seeking attention on the internet. It's unhealthy. You and I both know you have no personal information on this case. You were friends with Fahim and I'm a talking dog. Woof. See how easy it is to spew nonsense?
- valuearb 6y ago
  How did police find the kids felon tags spewed all over the apartment if he didn’t do it?
imranq 6y ago
I wish the best for his family. Sad all around. Occam's razor certainly applied here. I wonder if that rampant speculation earlier shows how disconnected we are from reality. Our minds are certainly warped by the sugary fictions and media we consume.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
phkahler 6y ago
>> despite the fact that Mr. Saleh had not reported the man and had set up what amounted to a repayment plan for him to return the money Ya try to do someone a favor... maybe not for someone why stole 10s of thousands of dollars from you?
halturing 6y ago
Accused are presumed innocent. It might ultimately be that the "early speculation" proves correct.
thatoneuser 6y ago
It sounds like something out of a movie.
bobsil1 6y ago
Web dev founder in Santa Cruz also allegedly murdered over money: https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Police-Tushar-Atre-murder-arrests-suspects-15287085.php https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Police-Tushar-Atre-mu...
duxup 6y ago
>One law enforcement official said it “looked like a professional job.” I wondered about that quote. What are the odds a given law enforcement offical would ever even see / know the results of a "professional"? The few "professional" folks I can think of historically, usually also dispose of the body...
- blisseyGo 6y ago
  "professional" can mean so many things in this context though. Could just mean that the way the head, arms and legs were chopped were clean cuts, place was clean etc?
- valuearb 6y ago
  They also use teams, not individuals. That’s way more risky.
blisseyGo 6y ago
If this was just over some money, why did the person chop off his head, arms and legs? That sounds like a lot of effort by the killer.
- kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
  To fit in the suitcase and scatter the parts upon disposal. Much easier than lugging around a whole body and digging a human sized hole.
sinuhe69 6y ago
Not dealing properly with a lowlife is often a deadly mistake, despise all the nice stories about second chance and redemption.

gk1 6y ago

What's amazing is how strongly people believe their own and others' speculation without any evidence. Look at what happened after the Boston Marathon bombing.

ta17711771 6y ago
People discovered the perpetrators ties to the FBI? Nah, definitely not what you meant. But it should have been.
- voisin 6y ago
  Can you provide context for those of us unclear on what you are referring to?
  - dleslie 6y ago
    Not the person you responded to, however: https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2017/04/09/tamerlan-tsarnaev-fbi-informant/ https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2017/04/09/tamerlan-tsar... It shouldn't be surprising to find that bad people sometimes turn out to be under the observation of, or even interacting with, law enforcement.
aaron695 6y ago
It was years ago. If it's a problem people would have moved to a better example, not a years old case. OSINT is a thing. It's also pretty amazing. It is something HN can't do though. Smart people let conspiracies rise to the top and fear making a mistake by correcting them. The Reddit/Boston Marathon meme is a gate-keeping meme on OSINT. Don't lynch mob ever, but also don't fear intelligent speculation.

intro-b 6y ago

Previous theories concerning hitmen from Saudi Arabia, Nigerian gangs, Chinese government involvement, and other salacious tales were really something.

gruez 6y ago
>Previous theories concerning hitmen from Saudi Arabia, Nigerian gangs, Chinese government To be fair, >Detectives believe that the killer, dressed in a black three-piece suit, wearing a black mask and carrying a duffel bag https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_47 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_47
- catalogia 6y ago
  I read a comment on another forum that made a big deal of the briefcase in particular. If they were just memeing/shitposting on the story that's one thing, but a lot of people seemed to sincerely believe that briefcase or suit ownership was actual evidence of being a contract killer. The professional coordinated murderers of Mahmoud Al-Mabhouh were caught on surveillance cameras wearing totally unremarkable clothing. In real life, contract killers don't have uniforms. However I think it's interesting to consider the possibility that the killer in this case was essentially role-playing as a contract killer as portrayed by popular media.
  - md_ 6y ago
    This is an underrated comment. What's intriguing to me is the idea that not only might the killer have been (consciously or unconsciously) role-playing a "professional", but that the police were engaging in the same fantasy. There were under 200 homicides in NYC in 2020 (to date). Undoubtedly the slimmest minority (if any) were, in the way one imagines, "professional". So it seems safe to assume the homicide detectives might not have significant firsthand experience with which to say, "this seems like a professional job." I'm reminded a little bit of the Bellagio "Biker Bandit" (https://lasvegassun.com/news/2011/aug/23/bellagio-bandit-gets-3-11-years-15-million-chip-he/)--the https://lasvegassun.com/news/2011/aug/23/bellagio-bandit-get... whole thing seemed super professional (full-face motorcycle helmet, full body-suit, in-and-out in minutes)...but it turned out to be a dude with a gambling problem and an Oxy habit.

zajd 6y ago

It's not really amazing, HN is incredibly xenophobic, just look at literally any thread that happens to mention China, even tangentially. I guess that's what happens when the majority of the userbase is well off Americans.

dang 6y ago
Last I ran the numbers, 50% of HN users were in the US. A lot of those are not Americans, since many HN users have come to the US from other countries. Moreover, a lot of the American userbase on HN are not "well off". So your assumption is far from correct. What HN certainly is, demographically, is majority Western. What you're seeing on China-related topics is the growing rift between China and the West, the same trend that shows up in Western media and no doubt Chinese media as well. I spend a lot of moderation time and energy arguing for understanding about this. But there's no way we can expect HN to be immune from macro social and geopolitical trends. There's no reason to believe that "HN is incredibly xenophobic" except insofar as human beings in general may be.
- lostlogin 6y ago
  Having recently watched your efforts to moderate discussion in a US v China style debate, you have an unenviable position. Thanks for your work.
- zajd 6y ago
  Well off westerners would definitely be more accurate. > a lot of the American userbase on HN are not "well off" Oh come on, get serious. This is a board focused on Tech, an industry where our the median/mean is well above almost any other field in the US.
  - dang 6y ago
    Sure, and equally obviously there are a lot of users below the median/mean. Millions of them, in fact. Some are below the poverty line. HN is more varied than you're assuming. That is actually the leading problem facing the community. People develop a distorted image of what the HN community is, and then when they encounter posts that contradict their image, they resort to antagonistic explanations that are harmful. The actual dynamic is this: many people here have wildly different backgrounds, and therefore strongly different views, than your own (I don't mean you personally, but all of us)—views which they come by as honestly as the rest of us come by ours. Yes there are bad actors, but users grossly overestimate the significance of that. We're far too quick to consign each other to the bad actor bucket, because we underestimate the variety and size of the genuine differences between us. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20%22shock%20experience%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

raincom 6y ago

Nothing wrong with unbounded speculation. Detectives have more facts to narrow the search space, whereas people online know a few facts: (a) CEO of a Nigerian start up; (b) regulatory problems in Nigeria; (c) fund raising. Don't blame the act of speculation; but blame the lack of additional facts.

interesting_att 6y ago

I was friends with Fahim and know personal information about this case. This kid absolutely did not do it, but it's easy to pin the blame on him. It absolutely was due to his work in Nigeria.

raincom 6y ago
Interesting to hear. You think detectives are colluding with Nigerians to 'the blame on him'?
truethoughts 6y ago
Stop seeking attention on the internet. It's unhealthy. You and I both know you have no personal information on this case. You were friends with Fahim and I'm a talking dog. Woof. See how easy it is to spew nonsense?
valuearb 6y ago
How did police find the kids felon tags spewed all over the apartment if he didn’t do it?

imranq 6y ago

I wish the best for his family. Sad all around. Occam's razor certainly applied here. I wonder if that rampant speculation earlier shows how disconnected we are from reality. Our minds are certainly warped by the sugary fictions and media we consume.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

phkahler 6y ago

>> despite the fact that Mr. Saleh had not reported the man and had set up what amounted to a repayment plan for him to return the money Ya try to do someone a favor... maybe not for someone why stole 10s of thousands of dollars from you?

halturing 6y ago

Accused are presumed innocent. It might ultimately be that the "early speculation" proves correct.

thatoneuser 6y ago

It sounds like something out of a movie.

bobsil1 6y ago

Web dev founder in Santa Cruz also allegedly murdered over money: https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Police-Tushar-Atre-murder-arrests-suspects-15287085.php https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Police-Tushar-Atre-mu...

duxup 6y ago

>One law enforcement official said it “looked like a professional job.” I wondered about that quote. What are the odds a given law enforcement offical would ever even see / know the results of a "professional"? The few "professional" folks I can think of historically, usually also dispose of the body...

blisseyGo 6y ago
"professional" can mean so many things in this context though. Could just mean that the way the head, arms and legs were chopped were clean cuts, place was clean etc?
valuearb 6y ago
They also use teams, not individuals. That’s way more risky.

blisseyGo 6y ago

If this was just over some money, why did the person chop off his head, arms and legs? That sounds like a lot of effort by the killer.

kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
To fit in the suitcase and scatter the parts upon disposal. Much easier than lugging around a whole body and digging a human sized hole.

sinuhe69 6y ago

Not dealing properly with a lowlife is often a deadly mistake, despise all the nice stories about second chance and redemption.