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Airbnb Was Like a Family, Until the Layoffs Started
- TimSchumann 6y agohttp://archive.is/NONc3 http://archive.is/NONc3
- joejohnson 6y agoEvery startup I ever worked at was like a family until the money started to run out; then you very quickly realize this “we’re a family” rhetoric works exactly one way and those 60 hour weeks you were pulling for free lunches and a significantly below-market salary were never going to be rewarded by anything.
- bob33212 6y agoI've seen them stick with the family talk. "Due to the current markets we are going to have to pull together as a team ( no bonus, no retirement, no Christmas party, prepare for pay cuts)." Then when people quit they get blamed for the failure of the company for not being team players.
- PopeDotNinja 6y agoTo be fair, even family can not feel like family when the money runs out.
- slovette 6y agoThat’s because you can’t buy culture. Bigger business has never been good at that and the youthfulness of the tech leadership world over the last 15-20 years is why this is a thing. We’ve attached the pretty-ness and warm feelings of realism to a hollow/fake implementation idea. Catered meals matter to those that haven’t quite grown up yet. What really matters is your boss dropping by the hospital when your child is born, you showing up and standing quietly by his side when some one he loves passes away, colleagues poking fun and reminding you how old you are your birthdays, dropping their tasks on a dime to come rescue you when your broke down on the side of the road. That’s life baby and they’re by your side as we all trudge through it. You don’t build “the family” on the concept of it’s value is purely what you’re getting out of it. You base it on sacrifice and the understanding that the work part is only the mission, the team is the reason you’re there and is probably what matters most. We have forgotten that the things that matter most in life and the things that build that kind of culture everyone mocks as “not real”, its all built on necessary sacrifice and substance that can not ever be quantified on profit & loss spreadsheet. Maybe the issue is that people SAY they want a culture that cares, but really it’s just not something you really want to work for. Do your job, collect a paycheck and go home. Maybe people should just be ok with the fact that in reality, that’s all they want. Otherwise, move to a rural area, take a job that pays a little less on a team that has these family qualities. We do exist, I think it’s just not something g you REALLY want or value.
- AlexandrB 6y ago> That’s because you can’t buy culture. Well maybe you can - by giving everyone significant equity - but no one is willing to write that cheque.
- LunaSea 6y agoBecause no VC would touch that company with a 10 foot pole and with reason.
- Analemma_ 6y agoSure, we all understand why it has to be this way. Doesn't change the fact that I'm never going to feel emotional loyalty to a startup that I know is giving me as little equity as it can get away with (and what there is will probably be whittled away by dilution, sketchy clawback terms, etc.) Loyalty is a two-way street.
- Apocryphon 6y agoMaybe, even on a forum like YC's HN, we should think beyond VCs.
- missedthecue 6y agoThere are only 100 percents
- NoOneNew 6y agoMoney and equity are not culture or especially family. You find out your real family when you are down and out. Those that still care for you when they have no incentive to are your true family. Not the people who only stick around when things are great and glorious. Generally speaking, there is never a "family" in a business. You are all there to make money, period.
- AmericanChopper 6y agoI’ve never found the idea of a business being like a family to be appealing at all. I don’t want my work to be prying into my personal life in any way. I do want to work for a business that cares though. They can show me how much they care by paying me well, treating me with respect, not intruding into my personal life, and by giving me a reasonable level of flexibility in how I organise my working hours and time on site. The people who say their companies are like families generally fall into two camps in my experience. Those who have no idea what they’re doing and want to signal their supposed intentions (no matter how bad their execution is), and those who want to emotionally pressure their staff into doing more than they’re paid for. If I make friends with some colleagues, well that’s nice. But I don’t want my boss to think of me as family, I wouldn’t even want to be friends with my boss. People are usually aren’t good enough at compartmentalizing for that to work.
- wolfgke 6y agoIf AirBnB is so certain in its "we are family" speeches: Why not give every current employee who has to be laid off because of the current situation an option to get back to AirBnB as soon as the economic situation of AirBnB improves again?
- save_ferris 6y agoBecause “we are family” was never meant literally. Companies will day and do a lot of things to get the most out of their employees, including emotional manipulation.
- basseq 6y agoExplicitly, the mechanism for that would be a furlough. Not so explicit, but most laid-off employees are "eligible for re-hire". That assumes, a) the company re-opens your same position, b) you still want to work for the company and haven't found a job in the interim, and c) that "economic situation" improves quickly to allow for the above, which it probably won't.
- mattmanser 6y agoIf they're a family, why not give everyone in airbnb equal shares? Because it's all bullshit, whether the founders realized it or not. Also, a family doesn't get their members to sign nondispargement agreements, unless it's really disfunctional. That kind of evil is a cult, not a family. Remaining Airbnbers would be wise to ponder those agreements and how ominous they are.
- godelzilla 6y agoProbably partially because the planet is being destroyed and AirBnB is not going to improve again.
- tyingq 6y ago"Then came the May 5 layoffs. To blunt the shock, Airbnb’s severance packages included three months of salary and a year of health benefits, which was more generous than many other start-ups doing layoffs." That's not terrible.
- Threeve303 6y agoIt's really not terrible. I'm having trouble finding the controversy here. The article makes it sound like it kind of was a family atmosphere before the pandemic hit. So the complaint is that a travel and hospitality company was not able to weather the storm long enough to keep everyone employed as if it wasn't happening?
- save_ferris 6y agoYes, the severance package is decent, but that’s not what this is about. Startups have been creating these cultures of “family” for years in order to have a closer relationship to their employees than ever before. This closeness, as many other dynamics of the current labor system in the US, benefit the companies far more than the employees. The culture of “startup family” made it possible for companies like Theranos to lie to investors for so long while keeping their employees quiet. The “startup family” culture made it possible for companies like Uber to devolve into a misogynistic, harassment-driven behemoth coming from the top. The “startup family” culture convinced millions of employees to take lower salaries with the hope that their dead-last-liquidation-preference common shares would turn into a nest egg someday, while 99% of them never did. Most people never even ask or understand the terms of these agreements. That doesn’t sound like family to me.
- nojvek 6y agoStartup family culture has some truth that you spend more time at your workplace than at home. But some SV companies take it way too far. At the end of the day every company gets your skill and in return compensate with stocks and salary. That’s all there is to it. If they don’t value your skill, you’re fired. You don’t disown your kids because you don’t value their skill. Family is for life (mostly). Jobs aren’t.
- 6y ago
- bearjaws 6y agoHate for Airbnb aside. I have to commend the CEO for directly addressing everyone in a meeting. Giving bad news like layoffs is extremely hard unless you are a sociopath. My current CEO left it for all the directors to tell the rest of the team, a trend I've seen several times in my career. I wish there was a name for a CEO who only gives the good news and leaves the bad news for middle management.
- lordnacho 6y agoI was one of those director people who had to give the bad news once. The big boss chickened out of firing everyone, except his brother. So I got left with the task of letting go of the guy with the pregnant wife, as well as the whole rest of the team. In addition, he didn't call to apologize to any of the investors (he'd blown up a hedge fund), he had our investor relations guy go that. Some of those investors literally said "ok I'm gonna lose my job when I tell my boss about this". So yeah, we need a name for that kind of abdication.
- xnyan 6y agoSee hospadar's comment, the word you are looking for is "coward".
- hospadar 6y ago> I wish there was a name for a CEO who only gives the good news and leaves the bad news for middle management. Heh - I think that's called "Coward"
- Axsuul 6y ago"Halcyon CEO"
- the-dude 6y ago“Part of the compensation is being part of this family,” I grew up in the 80ies and communities were much stronger then. We had a community run iceskating course during winter, community run 'neighbourhood'-house with games, music etc. We supplemented our schools budget by collecting old paper every six weeks, people just showed up and did the work together ( teachers, parents & kids ). Our municipality had a very nice pool-complex and library. All gone. Somehow this is all too expensive now.
- lallysingh 6y agoWe have that where I am. The taxes are actually quite high (~40% of my monthly mortgage is tax escrow) compared to wherever else I've lived.
- the-dude 6y agoThe pool & library or the community?
- lallysingh 6y agoAll of the above, actually.
- rs1234 6y agoWhy can't Airbnb do furloughs - take the amount they hope to save through a layoff, and have all employees not work for some x number of days each (staggered so as to not disrupt operations), so that the pain is shared, rather than borne by the laid-off few?
- nness 6y agoI was thinking that maybe it had do with regulation, or its effect on moral and productivity, etc. But I would just wager its far easier to do lay-offs. The path of least resistance...
- citizenkeen 6y agoAh yes, the path of least resistance. How very family-like.
- citizenkeen 6y agoI know a bunch of companies doing that. Two of my best friends in good paying software jobs both have unpaid Fridays off indefinitely so that the company can lay fewer people off. It's just inconvenient for AirBnB to care about its employees.
- driverdan 6y agoThe impact on the travel industry isn't short term. A few months of furloughs won't solve this problem.
- bleah1000 6y agoIt would be easy to argue that a furlough is worse. It gives this false sense of hope that airbnb might be able to hire them back. However, travel is likely not going to recover until next year at the earliest since a lot of countries have severe restrictions. People are also likely not traveling much so maybe Christmas travel might make things better. Unless airbnb was raking in the money, they've probably got a huge loss on the books now and they won't be making money any time so even a six month furlough would seem unlikely long enough to be able to hire back all of the people laid off. It's actually better to say, start looking for a job now, and here's a three month severence package, then say hold off on looking, we might be able to bring you back.
- lm28469 6y agoIt reminds me of one of my first jobs. "We're a family" yadda yadda yadda... They told me my contract wouldn't be renewed during a meeting which was initially planned to talk about a salary raise. Adding insult to injury they waited until they were legally obligated to tell me even though they knew much earlier that it was going to happen, what a great family. A job is a job, that's it. You'll be treated like waste as soon as the money runs out. > "Mr. Chesky aspired to a capitalism that had an “infinite time horizon” and was good for society." Ah ah ah, what a time to be alive
- lkrubner 6y ago"We are family" is only meaningful if everyone has a meaningful share of equity, and that does not scale very well. An actual family shares resources. I personally know that I will inherit some property from my parents. My parents took care of me when I was young, I have helped them in recent years. That is family. Among commercial relationships, the only thing that comes close is a partnership where everyone has some significant amount of equity. And that doesn't scale. A partnership of ten people is often like an actual family, in the economic aspects, and maybe you could stretch that to a hundred people. But you could you stretch that to 1,000 people? Or 10,000 people? At some point it is just not possible. Also, many workers enjoy working from home, but in terms of approaching the feeling of true alliance that is implied by "We are family" the only places (that I've been at) that have come close have been small startups where everyone had equity and everyone was working in one office. Mind you, when I say equity, I mean actual equity, not stock options. And to get actual equity, typically a worker needs to bring something to the table, other than a willingness to commit future hours. Typically they need to invest their own money, and become a true partner, or invest something else of value (one of my partners had inherited an old farmhouse and donated that, which became our office).
- sharadov 6y agoNice ploy being used time and again by SV companies to lure kids by offering catered food, foosball and a beer tap, so they never feel grown-up. Oh yeah add "unlimited vacation" to that as well. Family my ass!
- B4CKlash 6y agoI've only worked for larger-sized companies, but it's funny how pervasive this strategy is. When you're negotiating for something (a raise for instance) the conversation is always a personal affront to the individual responsible for approving the raise. but... when they're negotiating with you it's a holistic-embodiment of citizens united.
- pnutjam 6y agoBS, labor value should be equivalent to or more then capital value.
- throwaway_USD 6y agoHow much did AirBnB have to pay for this PR piece? >it built a reputation as the polar opposite of its sharing economy peers such as Uber, which prized ruthless competition, and WeWork, which collapsed under a partying culture and its founder’s self-dealing. >instead, Airbnb stood for earnest idealism. As I recall, just like Uber, Airbnb created a platform that facilitated breaking laws and regulations in many jurisdictions...and ultimately caused damages to many owners whose property values went down as a result of their neighbors running illegal short term rentals.
- logicchains 6y ago>ultimately caused damages to many owners whose property values went down as a result of their neighbors running illegal short term rentals Nobody is entitled to their property remaining a certain value. The same kind of argument is why NIMBYs try to stop the development of new housing, artificially propping up property prices and making it hard for new residents of a city to afford homes.
- adrianN 6y agoArtificially occupied apartments also make it hard for new residents to afford homes.
- ideamotor 6y agoAirbnb absolutely increases home prices. Many cities did decide to allow it, but only after owners broke local zoning intent, visitors became used to Airbnb availability, and cities became used to increased taxes. As with many recent changes, this is all great for everyone except those without assets.
- ng12 6y agoI would think the demand for "artificially occupied apartments" is a direct side effect of NIMBYism as well.
- the-dude 6y ago
- saos 6y agoOh dear. I wish people would get the "family" idea out of their heads when it comes to working a job at a company. I'm at X company to offer my skills, help others grow, grow my own skills and making money so I support my actual family after 5pm. on the dot.
- xtracto 6y agoExactly. I always tell the people I work that we are a team and not a family. Your family wont kick you out if you become lazy. Yor family wont judge you if show drunk or late to work. I will. As a team, we want the best for each other within the game we are playing. But extending that to a "family" analogy is BSing people. I've had to fire around 5 people in my career as a manager. And I can guarantee you I care less for that people than for cousins I seldom see.
- eschulz 6y agoExactly. The company is many things, but it's not a family. Find family elsewhere. https://m.signalvnoise.com/the-company-isnt-a-family/ https://m.signalvnoise.com/the-company-isnt-a-family/
- saos 6y ago> The best companies aren’t families. They’re supporters of families. Allies of families. There to provide healthy, fulfilling work environments so when workers shut their laptops at a reasonable hour, they’re the best husbands, wives, parents, siblings, and children they can be. Kudos
- 0000011111 6y agoIt sounds like you can be a family as long as your making money.
- kanox 6y ago> It’s not a family. It’s a workplace. It's better when companies and managers are honest about the nature of the employment relationship.
- jrootabega 6y agoMuch of the time, when companies say things, it's because they're not true, but they need you to believe they are. The things that are true don't need as much saying. The stated aspects of a company's culture are no exception. If they say their culture is one way, it's probably because it's distinctly not.
- exabrial 6y agoNo it wasn't. It was illegal hostels with subpar safety standards.
- Ozzie_osman 6y agoA friend who worked at one of these companies described it as: "it went from being all kool-aid to being all punch".
- InfiniteRand 6y agoI work for a family owned company that does have a little of that "we are all family" sense of things and I think the distinguishing marks are: 1. You are not fully trusted until the founder's son personally has some trust in you (this usually involves proving yourself professionally but also making an impression) 2. If you are not fully trusted, the company loyalty is about the same as any other company 3. If you are fully trusted, the company will go out of its way to avoid firing you even if you become ineffective, ie, they will shift you between positions, change you from full-time to part-time, sometimes even completely change your department. 4. Sometimes this trust gets to the point of not really paying attention to what so-and-so is doing 5. The downside is our company is heavily top-heavy, with a lot of people in vague senior positions with ill-defined zones of responsibility. People who are not able to stabilize somewhere into a new senior position usually move on but that can take a while 6. Partly because of #5, the exact responsibilities of senior people can be vague and the chain of command for certain things can be confusing 7. There is a lot of hiring within family and friends, not necessarily resulting in incompetence, but sometimes you wonder if there might be better people for some positions 8. The company is slow moving and stays relatively small, procedures are highly informal 9. Raises are probably below industry average, bonuses are probably above industry average Altogether, for me personally, the trade-offs are worth it. That being said, I can understand why most companies do not structure themselves this way.
- spaced-out 6y ago>Altogether, for me personally, the trade-offs are worth it. Really, because all the things you listed seem negative. What are the positives?
- InfiniteRand 6y ago#3, the company going out of its way to avoid firing you if you get their trust. They don’t ignore incompetence but they are willing to be flexible. The extra feeling of security is generally nice especially when company fortunes go up and down. They have also supported a shift in my job responsibilities toward more of a development focus, despite that being outside my original job description, and have overlooked some strange behavior on my part (not filing certain reports, avoiding certain customer interactions, etc), without needing a real explanation (the real explanation would require going into my mental heath history which is something I’d rather avoid).
- mikeshank 6y agoWhat about legal adoption as part of onboarding?
- rswskg 6y ago"New employees, who were screened for empathy in job interviews, were welcomed “home” and told: “You belong here.”" - What a distrubing quote, was it a cult?!?!
- throwaway40483 6y agoI give you labour. You give me money. GTFO with that family shit.
- einpoklum 6y agoYour employer is not your family nor like your family. It isn't your parent, nor brother, nor cousin. It isn't your friend, in the sense that even if your boss may personally be your friend - the company has an interest that's contradictory to yours: Making more profit off of your work. --- As for AirBnB - I really dislike them. They eats away at the supply of apartments available to people for actual rent - you know, to live in - in favor to catering to rich(er) tourists. This naturally drives rents up. So, the employees were part of a somewhat nasty "family".
- dragonwriter 6y ago> It isn't your friend, in the sense that even if your boss may personally be your friend - the company has an interest that's contradictory to yours: This depends on who your employer is: if your boss is your employer, and not just a higher ranked employee of the employer’s, your employer can be exactly as much of a friend as your boss is.
- einpoklum 6y agoActually, it doesn't. If your boss is your employer, than he is not-your-friend on that deep level of conflicting interests.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]