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In what way is open source Android a lie? I never used any other version, I do not have a Google account, nor do I have any Google-proprietary software on my de

In what way is open source Android a lie? I never used any other version, I do not have a Google account, nor do I have any Google-proprietary software on my devices yet they still run all software - including the Swedish "BankID" electronic ID app which is needed for just about any interaction with anything official nowadays. That "BankID" is, together with Firefox Preview, the only software which I got from the play store repository (using "Aurora Store", an alternative play store front end hosted on FDroid), the rest is all free software. Of course that means I do not use things like Facebook, Twitter, TikTok, Whatsapp, Snapchat, Instagram, Skype, Zoom, Google Maps etc. I have replacements for the useful ones (Zoom->Jitsi Meet, Whatsapp->XMPP + Telegram, Skype->Nextcloud Talk, Instagram->Pixelfed (experimental for now), GMaps->~OsmAnd + Nextcloud Maps etc) and don't need the rest. I never see advertising on any of my devices.

Akronymus 6y ago
I think you could be interested in ~~riot~~ element. https://element.io/ https://element.io/ Specifically works well as a discord replacement IMO. (Also has integration for stuff like jitsi)
- Yetanfou 6y ago
  I looked at Matrix (which is what riot.im/element is based on) but have thus far not seen its advantage over XMPP+OMEMO. When you install Jitsi Meet you already have an XMPP server (Prosody, used for signalling and interprocess communication) so it is trivial to add a configuration for 'regular' use. XMPP is more open than Matrix and there are far more clients (albeit not all of them useable with OMEMO, alas). On an earlier installation I used eJabberd since Prosody had some problems with OMEMO back then but this is no longer the case.
  - Akronymus 6y ago
    I wanted to refute your points, but actually looking into it, it seems that xmpp is actually superior in many ways.
raxxorrax 6y ago
True, Android itself doesn't have to be horrible, but most distributions are full of adware. Wouldn't want to minimize the work going into the core of the OS, I meant the critique to be directed against Android + gapps. I love Lineage, but you are dependent on other maintainers for your device or you have serious work ahead of you. It is quite simple to install for experienced users, but way too complicated for most people. Kudos to those that actually do maintain images for numerous devices. Granted, the problem are the hardware manufacturers here and lacking openness of viable drivers, also not the fault of Android developers. Smartphone could have been really awesome tools. Instead we have toys that spy on you by default. I get that techies tend to make it hard for casual users to use modern devices, but I feel like I am scamming people when fixing their devices and not waste countless hours by making sure at least some privacy is protected. I don't like closed ecosystems like Apple, but functions such as these actually do offer more worth. While I wouldn't buy Apple for myself, I started to recommend it to others for this reason.
- bbarnett 6y ago
  How about the elephant in the room? Radio firmwares. It is meaningless if you install firewalls, if you compile android on your own, only to have to turn around and use proprietary, closed source libs to access proprotary, closed source radio firmwares. Radio firmwares which often have full RAM access, parallel CPU control, GPS and full hardware access, and make intel's management engine, and closed source bioses look sane in comparison. On my samsung phone, I often wonder what the radio firmware might be phoning home about. And how that may be exploited down the road...
  - bayindirh 6y ago
    When I last deep dived to the cellular hardware, Radio always had its sealed off processor with a postbox firmware upload port. After initializing it, you left it alone and just used the comm-ports to talk with it. As far as I understand, in the name of efficiency and compactness, they are on the same silicon now. Are they still a different CPU core or just run on the main processor block?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
intopieces 6y ago
It’s important to consider not your specific implementation, but the common implementation that is Android. And that implementation is chock full of spyware/adware/malware. Android is open, and therefore exhibits the classic tension of liberty: free to do what you want, including harm yourself.
perryizgr8 6y ago
For most people, aosp without gapps is useless. Given an option, they will choose android over aosp every time. You don't use your phone for any popular apps so of course it's fine for you. I'd like to actually use my $1000 phone instead.
roughly 6y ago
This has nothing to do with your point about Android OSS - It's really a statement on our industry that avoiding spyware at this point basically means not using anything with a recognizable brand name. Apple's in a position to do this because they actually sell services to consumers; I'm curious if the rest of the industry will ever try anything that radical. Remember when "doing well by doing good" was a phrase?

Akronymus 6y ago

I think you could be interested in ~~riot~~ element. https://element.io/ https://element.io/ Specifically works well as a discord replacement IMO. (Also has integration for stuff like jitsi)

Yetanfou 6y ago
I looked at Matrix (which is what riot.im/element is based on) but have thus far not seen its advantage over XMPP+OMEMO. When you install Jitsi Meet you already have an XMPP server (Prosody, used for signalling and interprocess communication) so it is trivial to add a configuration for 'regular' use. XMPP is more open than Matrix and there are far more clients (albeit not all of them useable with OMEMO, alas). On an earlier installation I used eJabberd since Prosody had some problems with OMEMO back then but this is no longer the case.
- Akronymus 6y ago
  I wanted to refute your points, but actually looking into it, it seems that xmpp is actually superior in many ways.

raxxorrax 6y ago

True, Android itself doesn't have to be horrible, but most distributions are full of adware. Wouldn't want to minimize the work going into the core of the OS, I meant the critique to be directed against Android + gapps. I love Lineage, but you are dependent on other maintainers for your device or you have serious work ahead of you. It is quite simple to install for experienced users, but way too complicated for most people. Kudos to those that actually do maintain images for numerous devices. Granted, the problem are the hardware manufacturers here and lacking openness of viable drivers, also not the fault of Android developers. Smartphone could have been really awesome tools. Instead we have toys that spy on you by default. I get that techies tend to make it hard for casual users to use modern devices, but I feel like I am scamming people when fixing their devices and not waste countless hours by making sure at least some privacy is protected. I don't like closed ecosystems like Apple, but functions such as these actually do offer more worth. While I wouldn't buy Apple for myself, I started to recommend it to others for this reason.

bbarnett 6y ago
How about the elephant in the room? Radio firmwares. It is meaningless if you install firewalls, if you compile android on your own, only to have to turn around and use proprietary, closed source libs to access proprotary, closed source radio firmwares. Radio firmwares which often have full RAM access, parallel CPU control, GPS and full hardware access, and make intel's management engine, and closed source bioses look sane in comparison. On my samsung phone, I often wonder what the radio firmware might be phoning home about. And how that may be exploited down the road...
- bayindirh 6y ago
  When I last deep dived to the cellular hardware, Radio always had its sealed off processor with a postbox firmware upload port. After initializing it, you left it alone and just used the comm-ports to talk with it. As far as I understand, in the name of efficiency and compactness, they are on the same silicon now. Are they still a different CPU core or just run on the main processor block?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

intopieces 6y ago

It’s important to consider not your specific implementation, but the common implementation that is Android. And that implementation is chock full of spyware/adware/malware. Android is open, and therefore exhibits the classic tension of liberty: free to do what you want, including harm yourself.

perryizgr8 6y ago

For most people, aosp without gapps is useless. Given an option, they will choose android over aosp every time. You don't use your phone for any popular apps so of course it's fine for you. I'd like to actually use my $1000 phone instead.

roughly 6y ago

This has nothing to do with your point about Android OSS - It's really a statement on our industry that avoiding spyware at this point basically means not using anything with a recognizable brand name. Apple's in a position to do this because they actually sell services to consumers; I'm curious if the rest of the industry will ever try anything that radical. Remember when "doing well by doing good" was a phrase?