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An auto company targeting auto enthusiasts suing Top Gear is like a tech startup suing YCombinator. In nine cases out of ten the loss of goodwill is going to ma

by dman 16y ago

An auto company targeting auto enthusiasts suing Top Gear is like a tech startup suing YCombinator. In nine cases out of ten the loss of goodwill is going to make this a losing proposition.

vaksel 16y ago
agreed, Top Gear is pretty much THE car enthusiast show world wide...by suing them Tesla is pretty much attacking 80-90% of their potential customers. This will do nothing but hurt them...especially after Top Gear retaliates.
- Tyrannosaurs 16y ago
  It's an electric car, I think your average Top Gear viewer is as far from a potential customer as you can get given the general stance the show takes on such matters.
  - protomyth 16y ago
    I think the "average" viewer of any show is far from a potential customer. It is a $100K sports car with a range that limits it to commuting (not travel) distances.
    - _phred 16y ago
      I highly doubt that the "average" viewer of Top Gear could afford a $100k car of any make or model. Honestly, it's fun to watch the hosts blaze around the track in hideously expensive super cars, but the law of averages says that not more than a small proportion of the audience could actually afford those cars. So it's hard to quantify Tesla's claimed reputation damage as the people who buy Tesla cars likely don't care one whit what Top Gear has to say about the Tesla roadster, especially given the show's strong anti-environmental pro-speed hi-octane pro petroleum bent.
  - dman 16y ago
    Tesla isnt your typical cookie cutter electric car. Theres a reason the Top Gear folks compared it to the Lotus.
    - kerryfalk 16y ago
      The chassis is built/designed by Lotus.
  - vaksel 16y ago
    Top Gear is the #1 car show in the world...so there has to be a segment that would be interested in a Tesla. Sure it's electric, but it's still a sports car of sorts.
    - sp332 16y ago
      That's not really true. Toy Story 3 was the highest-grossing film of 2010... so there has to be a segment that would be interested in live-action movies. :) Basically, Top Gear is popular because it isn't all those other car shows. It's mainstream by popularity, but it's not mainstream in terms of typical car enthusiasts.
  - bmelton 16y ago
    It's a Lotus Elise that outperforms the Lotus Elise on straightaways. Faults or not, I have a hard time believing that they're aren't going to sell cars based on that fact alone. That they got covered on Top Gear is the car equivalent of a startup getting featured on TechCrunch -- good or bad, they got a LOT of eyeballs on the car, and while the review wasn't 100% positive, it wasn't entirely negative either. The flip side of the equation is whether or not TopGear actually exerts any purchasing influence whatsoever. Since most of their reviews are of Aston Martins, Lamborghinis, Ferraris, etc., do people buying cars at that caliber actually buy based on practical reviews? I'm guessing not. The Murcielago is a very impractical car, and I doubt anyone who was interested in buying a Lambo has changed their mind because TopGear exposed that its windshield wipers make noise over 100 miles per hour.
    - rythie 16y ago
      The point of a Lotus Elise is that it has excellent handling, you don't buy it for straight line speed.
      - bmelton 16y ago
        Traditionally, that is true. But this isn't a Lotus Elise, it's an electric. Many people will buy Hybrids/Eco-cars to make a statement, and if it happens to smoke your gas-guzzler in a drag race, all the better. The point is that the Tesla Roadster has selling points that aren't invalidated by a negative review on Top Gear and that, even if it were, they did a good job of making it look like a ton of fun, if not entirely practical. People paying 6 figures for cars are seldom looking for practicality in the same sense that most people do -- they're looking for something special, and there's no denying that the Tesla has that in spades. Edit: Swapped 'hybrid' for 'electric'.
        rythie 16y ago
        My comment was a direct response to "It's a Lotus Elise that outperforms the Lotus Elise on straightaways. Faults or not, I have a hard time believing that they're aren't going to sell cars based on that fact alone."
  - bradleyland 16y ago
    That's entirely untrue of the new generation of gear head. I'm a gear head and what I would consider an "average" Top Gear fan. I'd love a Tesla Roadster. I also find that Clarkson's views on a car are pretty close to what I feel. Yes, the whole out of juice thing was staged, but it was based on the realities of an all-electric car. It does have less range than most petrol powered vehicles. It does take longer to recharge than it would to refuel a petrol car. These are realities, but the show dramatizes them so the viewer can relate to them. Clarkson had plenty good to say about the car too. None of this makes me want a Tesla any less, and I'd argue that this holds true for pretty much anyone who wants to buy a Tesla. It's a $100k+ two-seater car for crying out loud. You don't buy it because it's practical, you buy it because it goes like stink and is a technological triumph. It's as fast around their track as a Porsche 911 GT3, yet it's 100% electric! I almost fell out of my chair when I first saw that.
    - Tyrannosaurs 16y ago
      Sorry, when did I say anything about the average Top Gear fan being interested in practical cars? That was the old Top Gear (and in large part the reason that the old show had became utterly tedious and why Clarkson left it). The editorial line on Top Gear (and Jeremy Clarkson's view in pretty much all media) has long been to mock environmentalists and their concerns. Maybe the viewers are all wildly interested in electric cars but it would be slightly odd as it would have them watching a show that spent a significant chunk of it's time mocking their beliefs. Obviously were you to offer to give them a Tesla they'd bite your hand off - it's as close to a super car as most of them will get - but offer them any car of equivalent value and I suspect you'd find that the demand dropped to close to zero.
      - bradleyland 16y ago
        It appears we have a not-argument against a not-argument. I'm not claiming TG fans are interested in electric cars. I'm claiming that TG fans are interested in cars with awesome performance whether they're electric or not. As you correctly pointed out, most TG fans would jump at the chance to own a Tesla. The equation becomes less clear when you thrown a more traditional super car in to the mix, but that's all besides the point, because very few of these people can afford to actually buy one. I'm rebutting this: "I think your average Top Gear viewer is as far from a potential customer as you can get given the general stance the show takes on such matters" Well, come to think of it, you're right in many respects. The average TG viewer simply can't afford a $110k automobile. I think you slightly misinterpret the TG editorial view though. They're not opposed to electric cars. They're opposed to slow, ugly, uninspiring cars. The net effect of environmentalism is that efficiency is put before all of these other factors. There wasn't one jab at the green aspect of the Tesla Roadster in that episode. It was all about the performance and the trade-offs.
bigohms 16y ago
This suit has parallels to Dan Snyder (NFL team owner - Washngton Redskins) suing a local city paper for a rather humorous (and factual) A-Z account of his mismanagement. The original post: http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/articles/40063/the-cranky-redskins-fans-guide-to-dan-snyder/ http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/articles/40063/the-cranky... The suit: http://www.tbd.com/articles/2011/02/dan-snyder-lawsuit-a-complete-analysis-49871.html http://www.tbd.com/articles/2011/02/dan-snyder-lawsuit-a-com...
- dhimes 16y ago
  Hadn't seen this- and I am definitely a cranky fan.
- eli 16y ago
  Except all the stuff about Dan Snyder was AFAIK true. While it's entirely possible that the Top Gear guys, ahem, exaggerated some of Tesla's failings. Edit: Still, it seems rather boneheaded to try to solve a minor PR problem from two years ago with a lawsuit that is certain to be very public.
  - pbhjpbhj 16y ago
    >Edit: Still, it seems rather boneheaded to try to solve a minor PR problem from two years ago with a lawsuit that is certain to be very public. Actually, I don't think this is boneheaded. Tesla are probably finding no-one is touching them because somehow, ahem Top Gear, everyone has the impression that the car will run for 50miles and then pack in and your only option will be to tow it home and charge it for 16hours to get another 50miles. This suit will at the very least raise the point that Top Gear misrepresented the mileage that one can expect to get and that they failed to mention fast-charging schemes. It's likely to get mentioned on Top Gear and in just about every motoring magazine and on every tech site everywhere. I think even a few million on the suit would be better spent than trying to reverse this perception through advertising. If I were in Tesla's target population then learning that Top Gear lied and that the mileage is actually a lot better than it appeared would probably put me back on track for a sale whilst learning that Tesla is suing Top Gear wouldn't negatively affect my purchase decision. TL;DR I think this is a win for Tesla overall.
quicksilver03 16y ago
A better analogy would be a tech startup suing TechCrunch, except that Top Gear is infinitely better.

by dman 16y ago

An auto company targeting auto enthusiasts suing Top Gear is like a tech startup suing YCombinator. In nine cases out of ten the loss of goodwill is going to make this a losing proposition.

vaksel 16y ago

agreed, Top Gear is pretty much THE car enthusiast show world wide...by suing them Tesla is pretty much attacking 80-90% of their potential customers. This will do nothing but hurt them...especially after Top Gear retaliates.

Tyrannosaurs 16y ago
It's an electric car, I think your average Top Gear viewer is as far from a potential customer as you can get given the general stance the show takes on such matters.
- protomyth 16y ago
  I think the "average" viewer of any show is far from a potential customer. It is a $100K sports car with a range that limits it to commuting (not travel) distances.
  - _phred 16y ago
    I highly doubt that the "average" viewer of Top Gear could afford a $100k car of any make or model. Honestly, it's fun to watch the hosts blaze around the track in hideously expensive super cars, but the law of averages says that not more than a small proportion of the audience could actually afford those cars. So it's hard to quantify Tesla's claimed reputation damage as the people who buy Tesla cars likely don't care one whit what Top Gear has to say about the Tesla roadster, especially given the show's strong anti-environmental pro-speed hi-octane pro petroleum bent.
- dman 16y ago
  Tesla isnt your typical cookie cutter electric car. Theres a reason the Top Gear folks compared it to the Lotus.
  - kerryfalk 16y ago
    The chassis is built/designed by Lotus.
- vaksel 16y ago
  Top Gear is the #1 car show in the world...so there has to be a segment that would be interested in a Tesla. Sure it's electric, but it's still a sports car of sorts.
  - sp332 16y ago
    That's not really true. Toy Story 3 was the highest-grossing film of 2010... so there has to be a segment that would be interested in live-action movies. :) Basically, Top Gear is popular because it isn't all those other car shows. It's mainstream by popularity, but it's not mainstream in terms of typical car enthusiasts.
- bmelton 16y ago
  It's a Lotus Elise that outperforms the Lotus Elise on straightaways. Faults or not, I have a hard time believing that they're aren't going to sell cars based on that fact alone. That they got covered on Top Gear is the car equivalent of a startup getting featured on TechCrunch -- good or bad, they got a LOT of eyeballs on the car, and while the review wasn't 100% positive, it wasn't entirely negative either. The flip side of the equation is whether or not TopGear actually exerts any purchasing influence whatsoever. Since most of their reviews are of Aston Martins, Lamborghinis, Ferraris, etc., do people buying cars at that caliber actually buy based on practical reviews? I'm guessing not. The Murcielago is a very impractical car, and I doubt anyone who was interested in buying a Lambo has changed their mind because TopGear exposed that its windshield wipers make noise over 100 miles per hour.
  - rythie 16y ago
    The point of a Lotus Elise is that it has excellent handling, you don't buy it for straight line speed.
    - bmelton 16y ago
      Traditionally, that is true. But this isn't a Lotus Elise, it's an electric. Many people will buy Hybrids/Eco-cars to make a statement, and if it happens to smoke your gas-guzzler in a drag race, all the better. The point is that the Tesla Roadster has selling points that aren't invalidated by a negative review on Top Gear and that, even if it were, they did a good job of making it look like a ton of fun, if not entirely practical. People paying 6 figures for cars are seldom looking for practicality in the same sense that most people do -- they're looking for something special, and there's no denying that the Tesla has that in spades. Edit: Swapped 'hybrid' for 'electric'.
      - rythie 16y ago
        My comment was a direct response to "It's a Lotus Elise that outperforms the Lotus Elise on straightaways. Faults or not, I have a hard time believing that they're aren't going to sell cars based on that fact alone."
- bradleyland 16y ago
  That's entirely untrue of the new generation of gear head. I'm a gear head and what I would consider an "average" Top Gear fan. I'd love a Tesla Roadster. I also find that Clarkson's views on a car are pretty close to what I feel. Yes, the whole out of juice thing was staged, but it was based on the realities of an all-electric car. It does have less range than most petrol powered vehicles. It does take longer to recharge than it would to refuel a petrol car. These are realities, but the show dramatizes them so the viewer can relate to them. Clarkson had plenty good to say about the car too. None of this makes me want a Tesla any less, and I'd argue that this holds true for pretty much anyone who wants to buy a Tesla. It's a $100k+ two-seater car for crying out loud. You don't buy it because it's practical, you buy it because it goes like stink and is a technological triumph. It's as fast around their track as a Porsche 911 GT3, yet it's 100% electric! I almost fell out of my chair when I first saw that.
  - Tyrannosaurs 16y ago
    Sorry, when did I say anything about the average Top Gear fan being interested in practical cars? That was the old Top Gear (and in large part the reason that the old show had became utterly tedious and why Clarkson left it). The editorial line on Top Gear (and Jeremy Clarkson's view in pretty much all media) has long been to mock environmentalists and their concerns. Maybe the viewers are all wildly interested in electric cars but it would be slightly odd as it would have them watching a show that spent a significant chunk of it's time mocking their beliefs. Obviously were you to offer to give them a Tesla they'd bite your hand off - it's as close to a super car as most of them will get - but offer them any car of equivalent value and I suspect you'd find that the demand dropped to close to zero.
    - bradleyland 16y ago
      It appears we have a not-argument against a not-argument. I'm not claiming TG fans are interested in electric cars. I'm claiming that TG fans are interested in cars with awesome performance whether they're electric or not. As you correctly pointed out, most TG fans would jump at the chance to own a Tesla. The equation becomes less clear when you thrown a more traditional super car in to the mix, but that's all besides the point, because very few of these people can afford to actually buy one. I'm rebutting this: "I think your average Top Gear viewer is as far from a potential customer as you can get given the general stance the show takes on such matters" Well, come to think of it, you're right in many respects. The average TG viewer simply can't afford a $110k automobile. I think you slightly misinterpret the TG editorial view though. They're not opposed to electric cars. They're opposed to slow, ugly, uninspiring cars. The net effect of environmentalism is that efficiency is put before all of these other factors. There wasn't one jab at the green aspect of the Tesla Roadster in that episode. It was all about the performance and the trade-offs.

bigohms 16y ago

This suit has parallels to Dan Snyder (NFL team owner - Washngton Redskins) suing a local city paper for a rather humorous (and factual) A-Z account of his mismanagement. The original post: http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/articles/40063/the-cranky-redskins-fans-guide-to-dan-snyder/ http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/articles/40063/the-cranky... The suit: http://www.tbd.com/articles/2011/02/dan-snyder-lawsuit-a-complete-analysis-49871.html http://www.tbd.com/articles/2011/02/dan-snyder-lawsuit-a-com...

dhimes 16y ago
Hadn't seen this- and I am definitely a cranky fan.
eli 16y ago
Except all the stuff about Dan Snyder was AFAIK true. While it's entirely possible that the Top Gear guys, ahem, exaggerated some of Tesla's failings. Edit: Still, it seems rather boneheaded to try to solve a minor PR problem from two years ago with a lawsuit that is certain to be very public.
- pbhjpbhj 16y ago
  >Edit: Still, it seems rather boneheaded to try to solve a minor PR problem from two years ago with a lawsuit that is certain to be very public. Actually, I don't think this is boneheaded. Tesla are probably finding no-one is touching them because somehow, ahem Top Gear, everyone has the impression that the car will run for 50miles and then pack in and your only option will be to tow it home and charge it for 16hours to get another 50miles. This suit will at the very least raise the point that Top Gear misrepresented the mileage that one can expect to get and that they failed to mention fast-charging schemes. It's likely to get mentioned on Top Gear and in just about every motoring magazine and on every tech site everywhere. I think even a few million on the suit would be better spent than trying to reverse this perception through advertising. If I were in Tesla's target population then learning that Top Gear lied and that the mileage is actually a lot better than it appeared would probably put me back on track for a sale whilst learning that Tesla is suing Top Gear wouldn't negatively affect my purchase decision. TL;DR I think this is a win for Tesla overall.

quicksilver03 16y ago

A better analogy would be a tech startup suing TechCrunch, except that Top Gear is infinitely better.