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Also, if you are a billionaire the government can take everything away from that person in the blink of an eye if decides it doesn't like what that person says.

Also, if you are a billionaire the government can take everything away from that person in the blink of an eye if decides it doesn't like what that person says. In the west there are far more protections and due process rights.

AsyncAwait 6y ago
If you're a billionaire, yes. If you're a person of color of not so great means, education etc. in the U.S. from a somewhat infamous area like Chicago, am not so sure. Just see the ongoing protests right now.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- drozycki 6y ago
  The intersection between South side Chicago resident and semiconductor expert is vanishingly small. Those who grow up in a disaffected part of the US and go on to study EE or CS do so through a US college opportunity which will funnel them into a US semiconductor job where they will be treated better than the treatment dark skinned people get in China. It’s common for restaurants in major Chinese cities to have “No Black” signs in their windows as a “COVID measure”, for example. https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/05/05/china-covid-19-discrimination-against-africans https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/05/05/china-covid-19-discrimin...
  - justicezyx 6y ago
    The linked article has no pictures of the sign. I have friends living in Shenzhen, I asked them, and they said they never saw such signs. It could be that they are visiting different groups of restaurants or hotels etc.
    - heavyset_go 6y ago
      If you had bothered to read the article, not only would you have seen the linked image and video[1], you'd have also read the tomes of evidence that goes against your anecdote. [1] https://twitter.com/BlackLivityCN/status/1249011762638266374 https://twitter.com/BlackLivityCN/status/1249011762638266374
  - AsyncAwait 6y ago
    > Those who grow up in a disaffected part of the US and go on to study EE or CS do so through a US college opportunity which will funnel them into a US semiconductor job The probability of that happening is not so big considering people from such areas tend to have low quality schools around them, which tends to mean low test scores, maybe even involvement with the "justice" system, no real opportunity to land a semiconductor job. What you said sounds nice, but I doubt happens much in practice.
joe_the_user 6y ago
In China, even a billionaire can be crushed by the state - for corruption, for being a power rival or for speaking out against state policy. In the US, a certain level of person has nearly carte blanche against scandal, against being accused of crimes or pursuing pathological policy positions. Of course, in the US, a small person's life can be snuffed out if they annoy the wrong cop and their life can be made miserable if they go up against the justice system or other powerful forces. I'm sure what how well the two system play against each other on the world stage at this point.
- tomp 6y ago
  Oh come on man (woman?), this comment is completely disingenuous. You're comparing 2 completely different things. Is US / the West fair? Not by a long shot. Tons of shitty stuff happening, from George Floyd, to Harvey Weinstein, to Jeffrey Epstein, to Julian Assange. But at least we know about them. But compared to China? You won't even hear about the "small person's life". I'm sure life in China can be great, unless you're Muslim, or Buddhist / Tibetan, or Falun Gong, or Canadian, or ... I don't know about you, but for me, there's no question which of these systems I'd prefer to live under. Even if I were black! (Notify me when China gets a black president.)
  - azinman2 6y ago
    That might be true for you, but that clearly isn't true for everyone. I know people in HK (mostly elderly) who are fine with China coming and taking over. They see security and wealth.
    - kilroy_jones 6y ago
      Most of those people in HK who are fine with it already have deep connections with the Mainland and want to maintain those. They are a small fraction of the population. It's also fairly short-sighted and selfish thinking in my mind to sell the off the rights of the younger generation so they can keep their assets and businesses safe. In the US we have been selling off our privacy and ability to affect public policy through our leaders for much the same reasons, ie short-term gains for the few. Difference is we gave it voluntarily.
pishpash 6y ago
Like you are a billionaire. In the West, as anywhere, the poor people have little due process rights in practice, and the rich depend far more on power than process for protection. The government has many "legal" means to "take everything away" from someone, including taking away their means of doing business or their access to power, running stories to defame them, using threats of tax issues, fraud, sexual crimes, national security violation, and other means of control. Sound familiar? If you think human nature is different because there is some scrap of paper from two hundred years ago you may be sorely disappointed when trying to redeem on your protections and rights, which it sounds like you've never had to do. This, mind you, is the same scrap of paper that claims all men are created equal.
tasogare 6y ago
> In the west there are far more protections and due process rights. Not necessarily. You could also lose your job and get totally screwed professionally if you speak against the last political trend. University professors could for instance lose a job over a pronoun matter. Sharing a memo have also been proven risky. The actors are different (state in one case, mob and PC in the other) but the end result can be pretty similar.
- igorkraw 6y ago
  Dude, this is very ingenious. If people get "cancelled", they don't have to fear for their lives, if they are white men they generally can find a job quite easily (maybe not the same one but eh) and there is enough diversity of opinion that they will have defenders like you in public fora. Try organising a Tiananmn protest, or criticising the Uyghur internment camps within China

AsyncAwait 6y ago

If you're a billionaire, yes. If you're a person of color of not so great means, education etc. in the U.S. from a somewhat infamous area like Chicago, am not so sure. Just see the ongoing protests right now.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
drozycki 6y ago
The intersection between South side Chicago resident and semiconductor expert is vanishingly small. Those who grow up in a disaffected part of the US and go on to study EE or CS do so through a US college opportunity which will funnel them into a US semiconductor job where they will be treated better than the treatment dark skinned people get in China. It’s common for restaurants in major Chinese cities to have “No Black” signs in their windows as a “COVID measure”, for example. https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/05/05/china-covid-19-discrimination-against-africans https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/05/05/china-covid-19-discrimin...
- justicezyx 6y ago
  The linked article has no pictures of the sign. I have friends living in Shenzhen, I asked them, and they said they never saw such signs. It could be that they are visiting different groups of restaurants or hotels etc.
  - heavyset_go 6y ago
    If you had bothered to read the article, not only would you have seen the linked image and video[1], you'd have also read the tomes of evidence that goes against your anecdote. [1] https://twitter.com/BlackLivityCN/status/1249011762638266374 https://twitter.com/BlackLivityCN/status/1249011762638266374
- AsyncAwait 6y ago
  > Those who grow up in a disaffected part of the US and go on to study EE or CS do so through a US college opportunity which will funnel them into a US semiconductor job The probability of that happening is not so big considering people from such areas tend to have low quality schools around them, which tends to mean low test scores, maybe even involvement with the "justice" system, no real opportunity to land a semiconductor job. What you said sounds nice, but I doubt happens much in practice.

joe_the_user 6y ago

In China, even a billionaire can be crushed by the state - for corruption, for being a power rival or for speaking out against state policy. In the US, a certain level of person has nearly carte blanche against scandal, against being accused of crimes or pursuing pathological policy positions. Of course, in the US, a small person's life can be snuffed out if they annoy the wrong cop and their life can be made miserable if they go up against the justice system or other powerful forces. I'm sure what how well the two system play against each other on the world stage at this point.

tomp 6y ago
Oh come on man (woman?), this comment is completely disingenuous. You're comparing 2 completely different things. Is US / the West fair? Not by a long shot. Tons of shitty stuff happening, from George Floyd, to Harvey Weinstein, to Jeffrey Epstein, to Julian Assange. But at least we know about them. But compared to China? You won't even hear about the "small person's life". I'm sure life in China can be great, unless you're Muslim, or Buddhist / Tibetan, or Falun Gong, or Canadian, or ... I don't know about you, but for me, there's no question which of these systems I'd prefer to live under. Even if I were black! (Notify me when China gets a black president.)
- azinman2 6y ago
  That might be true for you, but that clearly isn't true for everyone. I know people in HK (mostly elderly) who are fine with China coming and taking over. They see security and wealth.
  - kilroy_jones 6y ago
    Most of those people in HK who are fine with it already have deep connections with the Mainland and want to maintain those. They are a small fraction of the population. It's also fairly short-sighted and selfish thinking in my mind to sell the off the rights of the younger generation so they can keep their assets and businesses safe. In the US we have been selling off our privacy and ability to affect public policy through our leaders for much the same reasons, ie short-term gains for the few. Difference is we gave it voluntarily.

pishpash 6y ago

Like you are a billionaire. In the West, as anywhere, the poor people have little due process rights in practice, and the rich depend far more on power than process for protection. The government has many "legal" means to "take everything away" from someone, including taking away their means of doing business or their access to power, running stories to defame them, using threats of tax issues, fraud, sexual crimes, national security violation, and other means of control. Sound familiar? If you think human nature is different because there is some scrap of paper from two hundred years ago you may be sorely disappointed when trying to redeem on your protections and rights, which it sounds like you've never had to do. This, mind you, is the same scrap of paper that claims all men are created equal.

tasogare 6y ago

> In the west there are far more protections and due process rights. Not necessarily. You could also lose your job and get totally screwed professionally if you speak against the last political trend. University professors could for instance lose a job over a pronoun matter. Sharing a memo have also been proven risky. The actors are different (state in one case, mob and PC in the other) but the end result can be pretty similar.

igorkraw 6y ago
Dude, this is very ingenious. If people get "cancelled", they don't have to fear for their lives, if they are white men they generally can find a job quite easily (maybe not the same one but eh) and there is enough diversity of opinion that they will have defenders like you in public fora. Try organising a Tiananmn protest, or criticising the Uyghur internment camps within China