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Well, there's always 4chan, which is exactly what you just said. Not exactly a poster-boy for quality internet discussion. Also, I recommend https://bengrosser

Well, there's always 4chan, which is exactly what you just said. Not exactly a poster-boy for quality internet discussion. Also, I recommend https://bengrosser.com/projects/twitter-demetricator/ https://bengrosser.com/projects/twitter-demetricator/ to remove metrics from twitter.

praptak 6y ago
4chan prioritizes active threads, which means a huge boost to trolling and content dumps.
- joe_the_user 6y ago
  That's the thing about trying eliminate voting. If comments essentially serve as votes, you actually get the worse kind of filter - the way the filth rises to the top on Youtube comments for example (Youtube sorts by most commented even though it allows voting - so hateful stuff remains even when downvoted).
  - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
    The best solution I've seen for this is to have a separate subforum for highly contentious discussions, and anything with more than a threshold number of comments per hour gets automatically moved there and flagged for moderator review. Then the moderator can move it back, delete it entirely or just leave it in the separate subforum so that interested parties can flame each other in the fire pit instead of out where everybody else hangs out.
diarrhea 6y ago
While you're right, I really do like 4chan. It doing away with any voting really creates a wholly different culture. It requires a completely different approach to reading it. Now, the people there are outcasts in one form or another, in real life or digitally. That can get you mixed results and tainted content, but the principle of how that 'forum' is set up I like a lot.
- Fjolsvith 6y ago
  It requires a reader to think for themselves and actually analyze content. Not for those who like their information spoon-fed.
  - devmunchies 6y ago
    i chuckled that this comment was grayed out. I was analyzing my feelings and voting indicators really do make an impact. I can feel the emotional charge from all the people who downvote as I'm reading. emotional context truly is the 6th sense.
  - nemothekid 6y ago
    4chan somehow has this reputation for being savants despite being just as vulnerable as Twitter in getting swept up into a mob with lazily research facts being dressed up as genuine when someone uses complete sentences. * chans only work largely because of moderation (That doesn't mean the moderation has to operate in a way you like). Likewise the for HN. IMO, no single feature ruins online social platforms more than size. The best subreddits are the small ones, the best * chans are the small ones, the best forums are the small ones. "Features" don't ruin platforms, users do.
devmunchies 6y ago
it is precisely because 4chan one of the last popular "free" sites that it is more extreme. if the entire internet were more like it, there would be more mild sites with more PC discussion that you could join. A site could still allow accounts and banning and have guidelines around discussion topics, it doesn't have to be completely anonymous like 4chan.
- yesco 6y ago
  I'd argue that the anonymous nature of it is actually what allows it to maintain it's status as "free". By disconnecting everyone from any sort of permanent identity, it totally eliminates the possibility of a user or group of users collecting enough social capital to change things.
  - errantspark 6y ago
    I don't think people understand how important this is.
- errantspark 6y ago
  FWIW 4chan has accounts, banning and guidelines. It's not totally lawless and anonymous. It just has the option of anonymity. Probably the best, deepest LGBT+ issues discussions I've ever had have been on their /lgbt/ board. They were filled with people yelling obscenities too, but that doesn't bother me. I guess it's the culture I grew up with, it's natural to engage in discussion while people are yelling around me. I'm really glad there's still a place out there that believes in free speech as a foundational principle not to be infringed upon except as an absolute last resort. I'm glad not everywhere is 4chan, but 4chan is a gem of discourse in today's world if you ignore like 90% of it. I'm increasingly convinced that that 90% is the inevitable cost of the wonderful 10% that represents the sharing of intelligent thought without fear of reprisal.
  - latexr 6y ago
    > FWIW 4chan has accounts The Wikipedia page[1] claims that “Registration is not possible”. Is it wrong, or am I misunderstanding? [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4chan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4chan
latexr 6y ago
> Well, there's always 4chan, which is exactly what you just said. I disagree. 4chan isn’t Twitter without visible voting, it also has anonymity baked in, you can’t register an account, and old threads are automatically deleted. A more apt example of (my understanding of) the argument you’re replying to is HN: you can see your own points on a discussion, but not anyone else’s. Posts are given more prominence due to their score, but due to their invisibility you only get a rough idea of how popular they are inside their own discussion, not how much more popular they are in relation to other posts.
- justinator 6y ago
  hn still has internet points in the form of karma, though.
  - latexr 6y ago
    > hn still has internet points I spent over half my post discussing them. The point is that they are not visible.
    - justinator 6y ago
      I guess my point is that they ARE visible (karma). Click on a username of someone. Yours is at, "888". Popularity contests are alive and well on hn.
      - zeroimpl 6y ago
        Does anybody actually look at other users points on a regular basis? I think it’s rare which is why it’s not really relevant. Besides, it’s not even a measure of popularity but more of a lifetime scoreboard. If HN reported something like average points per post or per day, that would be closer to a popularity metric (eg more inline with “number of followers”)
        justinator 6y ago
grillvogel 6y ago
i disagree there. sure you have to wade thru a lot of garbage, but the amount of truly insightful posts still make it worth going to for me. on some of the less popular, more focused boards, the general discussion quality is pretty high.

praptak 6y ago

4chan prioritizes active threads, which means a huge boost to trolling and content dumps.

joe_the_user 6y ago
That's the thing about trying eliminate voting. If comments essentially serve as votes, you actually get the worse kind of filter - the way the filth rises to the top on Youtube comments for example (Youtube sorts by most commented even though it allows voting - so hateful stuff remains even when downvoted).
- AnthonyMouse 6y ago
  The best solution I've seen for this is to have a separate subforum for highly contentious discussions, and anything with more than a threshold number of comments per hour gets automatically moved there and flagged for moderator review. Then the moderator can move it back, delete it entirely or just leave it in the separate subforum so that interested parties can flame each other in the fire pit instead of out where everybody else hangs out.

diarrhea 6y ago

While you're right, I really do like 4chan. It doing away with any voting really creates a wholly different culture. It requires a completely different approach to reading it. Now, the people there are outcasts in one form or another, in real life or digitally. That can get you mixed results and tainted content, but the principle of how that 'forum' is set up I like a lot.

Fjolsvith 6y ago
It requires a reader to think for themselves and actually analyze content. Not for those who like their information spoon-fed.
- devmunchies 6y ago
  i chuckled that this comment was grayed out. I was analyzing my feelings and voting indicators really do make an impact. I can feel the emotional charge from all the people who downvote as I'm reading. emotional context truly is the 6th sense.
- nemothekid 6y ago
  4chan somehow has this reputation for being savants despite being just as vulnerable as Twitter in getting swept up into a mob with lazily research facts being dressed up as genuine when someone uses complete sentences. * chans only work largely because of moderation (That doesn't mean the moderation has to operate in a way you like). Likewise the for HN. IMO, no single feature ruins online social platforms more than size. The best subreddits are the small ones, the best * chans are the small ones, the best forums are the small ones. "Features" don't ruin platforms, users do.

devmunchies 6y ago

it is precisely because 4chan one of the last popular "free" sites that it is more extreme. if the entire internet were more like it, there would be more mild sites with more PC discussion that you could join. A site could still allow accounts and banning and have guidelines around discussion topics, it doesn't have to be completely anonymous like 4chan.

yesco 6y ago
I'd argue that the anonymous nature of it is actually what allows it to maintain it's status as "free". By disconnecting everyone from any sort of permanent identity, it totally eliminates the possibility of a user or group of users collecting enough social capital to change things.
- errantspark 6y ago
  I don't think people understand how important this is.
errantspark 6y ago
FWIW 4chan has accounts, banning and guidelines. It's not totally lawless and anonymous. It just has the option of anonymity. Probably the best, deepest LGBT+ issues discussions I've ever had have been on their /lgbt/ board. They were filled with people yelling obscenities too, but that doesn't bother me. I guess it's the culture I grew up with, it's natural to engage in discussion while people are yelling around me. I'm really glad there's still a place out there that believes in free speech as a foundational principle not to be infringed upon except as an absolute last resort. I'm glad not everywhere is 4chan, but 4chan is a gem of discourse in today's world if you ignore like 90% of it. I'm increasingly convinced that that 90% is the inevitable cost of the wonderful 10% that represents the sharing of intelligent thought without fear of reprisal.
- latexr 6y ago
  > FWIW 4chan has accounts The Wikipedia page[1] claims that “Registration is not possible”. Is it wrong, or am I misunderstanding? [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4chan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4chan

latexr 6y ago

> Well, there's always 4chan, which is exactly what you just said. I disagree. 4chan isn’t Twitter without visible voting, it also has anonymity baked in, you can’t register an account, and old threads are automatically deleted. A more apt example of (my understanding of) the argument you’re replying to is HN: you can see your own points on a discussion, but not anyone else’s. Posts are given more prominence due to their score, but due to their invisibility you only get a rough idea of how popular they are inside their own discussion, not how much more popular they are in relation to other posts.

justinator 6y ago
hn still has internet points in the form of karma, though.
- latexr 6y ago
  > hn still has internet points I spent over half my post discussing them. The point is that they are not visible.
  - justinator 6y ago
    I guess my point is that they ARE visible (karma). Click on a username of someone. Yours is at, "888". Popularity contests are alive and well on hn.
    - zeroimpl 6y ago
      Does anybody actually look at other users points on a regular basis? I think it’s rare which is why it’s not really relevant. Besides, it’s not even a measure of popularity but more of a lifetime scoreboard. If HN reported something like average points per post or per day, that would be closer to a popularity metric (eg more inline with “number of followers”)
      - justinator 6y ago

grillvogel 6y ago

i disagree there. sure you have to wade thru a lot of garbage, but the amount of truly insightful posts still make it worth going to for me. on some of the less popular, more focused boards, the general discussion quality is pretty high.