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Why anyone take such a big risk when they could play with stocks with one account.

by codesternews 6y ago

rainyMammoth 6y ago
You can easily trace stock trades.
MattGaiser 6y ago
Go ahead.... try to anonymously purchase stock.
- adrr 6y ago
  Pretty sure this is trivial. Buy someone’s identity on the dark web to pass an online brokerages KYC then wire money in from an international bank. I say this as person who worked at a fintech. KYC checks aren’t the most robust and you can brute force the knowledge based authentication if you have enough people’s information. Some of the KBA questions you can google because all the data brokers put people’s past cities online.
  - chki 6y ago
    But remember: you'll also need to sell the stock after having committed the crime, with all the attention drawn to those getting a big payout.
    - adrr 6y ago
      It will take at least a week for the SEC to make an official request. Funds would have settled and you can call up and wire the money away. Never seen it with stocks but have seen in on deposit accounts. One of the biggest issues with online banks is fake accounts that are used as mule accounts to move stolen money. Authentication in the us is weak and based around SSN and credit history which isn’t hard to buy. Want a billion dollar idea, solve that with out using things like sending a verification code in the mail to an address on active account in the person credit history.
      - rwmurrayVT 6y ago
        The SEC will find you. I know from experience.
        mercer 6y ago
        Assuming this is what you went to prison for, is there anything you can tell us about what happened or what the experience was like? Or have you written about it already on HN or anywhere else? Of course I can understand if you somehow unable or unwilling to talk about it, but I'm really curious and it can't hurt to ask :).
    - jkhdigital 6y ago
      You mean the deep OTM daily put options
  - thelittleone 6y ago
    Recently some banks are using video calls to do KYC checks. You need to hold up your passport while they verify and then Q&A.
  - tornato7 6y ago
    Anyway you look at it you'd have the FBI and SEC on your ass in minutes. With Bitcoin nobody's going to really bother.
- michaelt 6y ago
  Why would you need to be anonymous? I mean, if you spent $$$$ shorting Tesla stock, then a week later the stock nosedived in response to a tweet and you made a big profit, that doesn't prove you were behind the tweet. It wouldn't even be illegal, unless there was independent proof you were behind the hack. Without that, you just placed a bet which happened to be a lucky one - just like anyone else who was short Tesla.
  - solarkraft 6y ago
    > It wouldn't even be illegal Yes, it would be ... but it would also be hard to prove.
  - kristjansson 6y ago
    The SEC would _definitely_ have some questions for you in the scenario.
    - michaelt 6y ago
      What are they going to ask? Why did you short the most shorted stock in America? Why did you later close your short position, locking in a large profit? I'd be surprised if that even got you interviewed, let alone searched for hacking tools. Unless they've fingered you by some other means, in which case it's irrelevant how you were planning to get the money out.
      - kristjansson 6y ago
        At that point, it's a criminal investigation and everyone on the right side of the trade is a suspect. If you'd made enough to make the risk worthwhile, they'd subpoena everything - phone records, emails, electronics, financial history, contacts, ...

Why anyone take such a big risk when they could play with stocks with one account.

rainyMammoth 6y ago

You can easily trace stock trades.

MattGaiser 6y ago

Go ahead.... try to anonymously purchase stock.

adrr 6y ago
Pretty sure this is trivial. Buy someone’s identity on the dark web to pass an online brokerages KYC then wire money in from an international bank. I say this as person who worked at a fintech. KYC checks aren’t the most robust and you can brute force the knowledge based authentication if you have enough people’s information. Some of the KBA questions you can google because all the data brokers put people’s past cities online.
- chki 6y ago
  But remember: you'll also need to sell the stock after having committed the crime, with all the attention drawn to those getting a big payout.
  - adrr 6y ago
    It will take at least a week for the SEC to make an official request. Funds would have settled and you can call up and wire the money away. Never seen it with stocks but have seen in on deposit accounts. One of the biggest issues with online banks is fake accounts that are used as mule accounts to move stolen money. Authentication in the us is weak and based around SSN and credit history which isn’t hard to buy. Want a billion dollar idea, solve that with out using things like sending a verification code in the mail to an address on active account in the person credit history.
    - rwmurrayVT 6y ago
      The SEC will find you. I know from experience.
      - mercer 6y ago
        Assuming this is what you went to prison for, is there anything you can tell us about what happened or what the experience was like? Or have you written about it already on HN or anywhere else? Of course I can understand if you somehow unable or unwilling to talk about it, but I'm really curious and it can't hurt to ask :).
  - jkhdigital 6y ago
    You mean the deep OTM daily put options
- thelittleone 6y ago
  Recently some banks are using video calls to do KYC checks. You need to hold up your passport while they verify and then Q&A.
- tornato7 6y ago
  Anyway you look at it you'd have the FBI and SEC on your ass in minutes. With Bitcoin nobody's going to really bother.
michaelt 6y ago
Why would you need to be anonymous? I mean, if you spent $$$$ shorting Tesla stock, then a week later the stock nosedived in response to a tweet and you made a big profit, that doesn't prove you were behind the tweet. It wouldn't even be illegal, unless there was independent proof you were behind the hack. Without that, you just placed a bet which happened to be a lucky one - just like anyone else who was short Tesla.
- solarkraft 6y ago
  > It wouldn't even be illegal Yes, it would be ... but it would also be hard to prove.
- kristjansson 6y ago
  The SEC would _definitely_ have some questions for you in the scenario.
  - michaelt 6y ago
    What are they going to ask? Why did you short the most shorted stock in America? Why did you later close your short position, locking in a large profit? I'd be surprised if that even got you interviewed, let alone searched for hacking tools. Unless they've fingered you by some other means, in which case it's irrelevant how you were planning to get the money out.
    - kristjansson 6y ago
      At that point, it's a criminal investigation and everyone on the right side of the trade is a suspect. If you'd made enough to make the risk worthwhile, they'd subpoena everything - phone records, emails, electronics, financial history, contacts, ...