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JD Power is clearly in bed with the traditional Detroit automakers. If you look at their history of rewards[0], you'll find that many times they choose the big

JD Power is clearly in bed with the traditional Detroit automakers. If you look at their history of rewards[0], you'll find that many times they choose the big three american companies vehicles over clearly superior import vehicles. They're vehicles on the page show one vehicle from each of the three big automakers in the US, one Chevy, one Ford, and a Dodge. There's also a Volvo in there that I'm sure fought some battles in conference rooms to get there. I nearly get triggered every time I heard about these awards in commercials. They are not to be trusted. [0] https://www.jdpower.com/Cars/Ratings https://www.jdpower.com/Cars/Ratings

3327 6y ago
Yeah - totally biased Study - Toyota and Merecedes on the bottom of the List and Buick at the top? Dodge? Kia? This study is a joke.
- csunbird 6y ago
  To be fair, I can not say Mercedes cars are reliable.
  - davedx 6y ago
    Mercedes drive hundreds of thousands of miles, they're well known for it... http://www.mercedesmedic.com/many-miles-mercedes-benz-cars-good/ http://www.mercedesmedic.com/many-miles-mercedes-benz-cars-g...
    - csunbird 6y ago
      Maybe the old ones, but I do not see myself using a newer ones more than 100-150k kilometers.
1234letshaveatw 6y ago
Their survey results indicated that a domestic model deserved to be highly ranked? Outrageous! Do you think masks are a part of a vast dem conspiracy also?
screye 6y ago
As someone who used to be an automobile engineer working for a big automaker in the a previous life, J.D power rankings are a complete farce. Their surveys are designed so that a particular automaker will win (overrating certain metrics for no reason) and then make money by charging automakers to use those awards. They have a vested interest in giving awards to automakers that are more in need of them. (not German or Japanese automakers)
- devy 6y ago
  So technically this is a pay-for-play kind of shenanigans?
  - screye 6y ago
    Yes and No. What JD power does is make a massive number of categories to give awards in. They then choose metrics for the survey that prioritize certain traits of the vehicle. The surveys themselves are conducted in a fair manner and awarded companies truly deserve those awards. But, in some sense, them winning it was a foregone conclusion the second the metrics were selected. It is like conducting a strongest man competition that prioritized height over anything else. Then the competition was conducted and people from Netherlands won handedly. By the metrics, Netherlands has won the competition fair and square. But, using height as the main metric for strength made their victory a foregone conclusion. Same thing. Their surveys are free. But, they charge automakers money to use the awards in marketing. Honda or Toyota doesn't quite care for JD power awards because they win a lot in other comparisons. But, American manufacturers rely on these awards to look better, because frankly they don't have much going for them.
    - falcolas 6y ago
      Does that make their ratings for the chosen categories incorrect? If you care about a category specifically (like 1st year reliability), it still seems valuable.
    - kenhwang 6y ago
      Yep. If you create enough awards, everyone's a winner. My understanding is that the data itself and the surveying services they offer is actually rather good, and many automakers actually pay for the raw data and that service. It's the marketing/awards side that's quite literally garbage. And certain automakers will pay for this as well.
jedberg 6y ago
The most awarded brands section backs up your point too. Granted Toyota is number one, but then you have the three big American brands right after that. Also it's hard to tell, but I believe the Volvo in the picture is the one that is made in South Carolina.
windexh8er 6y ago
JD Power is akin to paid studies like an IDC "Study", or Gartner and Forrester "research". Or even better - Tolly "reports". And finally the complete sham that is NSS Labs. They're all pay for play - and using NSS as an example, they get paid on both sides. First the vendors pay the "lab fee" (source: I worked for a large security vendor and was involved in this process) to be included and for any reruns of the test if you don't like the results. The other half of it is charging customers for the "unbiased" reporting / research. It's a racket. Someone sent me a link to this JD report last month and I just responded with a rolling eye emoji. JD Power has declared GM/Chevy the winner for their entire existence if you watch any of their commercials. Clearly it works to an extent. And their loyal buying base oft references the "quality" represented from personal experience. However, starting that conversation about the JD link got me looking. I started comparing reliability of Tesla to all other luxury brands in my subscription to Consumer Reports (they, at least, they buy what they test and have no brand influence or conflicting interest). While the Model X seems to fare the worst the Model S doesn't rank lower than comparable BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc for the most part. In a lot of those direct comparisons Tesla has higher reliability, but still relatively poor given the cost of the product. I fully agree with the parent comment here. Tesla likely told JD to go fly a kite and JD's enterprising sales folks went to Detroit and conjured up a nice fluff piece. Or, maybe this is a sign of Detroit starting sling mud because, too little too late. From my perspective I hope Detroit gets their act together quicker than they have been as I'd like more choice for EV. I don't own any Tesla products, but I likely will in the next 3-5 years if the current landscape of EV options doesn't significantly change. I like the idea of a lot of the concepts Tesla has brought to market, but as a consumer I don't really care what badge is on the vehicle anymore. It's unfortunate those who are competing are often lacking in many ways when compared to the current market leader.
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tomjakubowski 6y ago
Their awards this year seem to be mostly given to non-US brands, with the exception of awards for trucks. https://www.jdpower.com/Cars/Ratings/Dependability https://www.jdpower.com/Cars/Ratings/Dependability
sdinsn 6y ago
From your link, Toyota got the most awards this year, with Nissan and Lexus (Lexus is owned by Toyota) getting 2 awards.
- milkytron 6y ago
  I meant if you look at years past. They have links to the rewards for each year.
api 6y ago
JD Power seems like the Gartner of automotive.
toddmorey 6y ago
I was wondering about that. I owed a Dodge in the 90s and was amazed to see Dodge today at the top of the list. I was ready to consider either that my "never again" philosophy to the brand needed an update or that the survey was a bit suspect.

3327 6y ago

Yeah - totally biased Study - Toyota and Merecedes on the bottom of the List and Buick at the top? Dodge? Kia? This study is a joke.

csunbird 6y ago
To be fair, I can not say Mercedes cars are reliable.
- davedx 6y ago
  Mercedes drive hundreds of thousands of miles, they're well known for it... http://www.mercedesmedic.com/many-miles-mercedes-benz-cars-good/ http://www.mercedesmedic.com/many-miles-mercedes-benz-cars-g...
  - csunbird 6y ago
    Maybe the old ones, but I do not see myself using a newer ones more than 100-150k kilometers.

1234letshaveatw 6y ago

Their survey results indicated that a domestic model deserved to be highly ranked? Outrageous! Do you think masks are a part of a vast dem conspiracy also?

screye 6y ago

As someone who used to be an automobile engineer working for a big automaker in the a previous life, J.D power rankings are a complete farce. Their surveys are designed so that a particular automaker will win (overrating certain metrics for no reason) and then make money by charging automakers to use those awards. They have a vested interest in giving awards to automakers that are more in need of them. (not German or Japanese automakers)

devy 6y ago
So technically this is a pay-for-play kind of shenanigans?
- screye 6y ago
  Yes and No. What JD power does is make a massive number of categories to give awards in. They then choose metrics for the survey that prioritize certain traits of the vehicle. The surveys themselves are conducted in a fair manner and awarded companies truly deserve those awards. But, in some sense, them winning it was a foregone conclusion the second the metrics were selected. It is like conducting a strongest man competition that prioritized height over anything else. Then the competition was conducted and people from Netherlands won handedly. By the metrics, Netherlands has won the competition fair and square. But, using height as the main metric for strength made their victory a foregone conclusion. Same thing. Their surveys are free. But, they charge automakers money to use the awards in marketing. Honda or Toyota doesn't quite care for JD power awards because they win a lot in other comparisons. But, American manufacturers rely on these awards to look better, because frankly they don't have much going for them.
  - falcolas 6y ago
    Does that make their ratings for the chosen categories incorrect? If you care about a category specifically (like 1st year reliability), it still seems valuable.
  - kenhwang 6y ago
    Yep. If you create enough awards, everyone's a winner. My understanding is that the data itself and the surveying services they offer is actually rather good, and many automakers actually pay for the raw data and that service. It's the marketing/awards side that's quite literally garbage. And certain automakers will pay for this as well.

jedberg 6y ago

The most awarded brands section backs up your point too. Granted Toyota is number one, but then you have the three big American brands right after that. Also it's hard to tell, but I believe the Volvo in the picture is the one that is made in South Carolina.

windexh8er 6y ago

JD Power is akin to paid studies like an IDC "Study", or Gartner and Forrester "research". Or even better - Tolly "reports". And finally the complete sham that is NSS Labs. They're all pay for play - and using NSS as an example, they get paid on both sides. First the vendors pay the "lab fee" (source: I worked for a large security vendor and was involved in this process) to be included and for any reruns of the test if you don't like the results. The other half of it is charging customers for the "unbiased" reporting / research. It's a racket. Someone sent me a link to this JD report last month and I just responded with a rolling eye emoji. JD Power has declared GM/Chevy the winner for their entire existence if you watch any of their commercials. Clearly it works to an extent. And their loyal buying base oft references the "quality" represented from personal experience. However, starting that conversation about the JD link got me looking. I started comparing reliability of Tesla to all other luxury brands in my subscription to Consumer Reports (they, at least, they buy what they test and have no brand influence or conflicting interest). While the Model X seems to fare the worst the Model S doesn't rank lower than comparable BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc for the most part. In a lot of those direct comparisons Tesla has higher reliability, but still relatively poor given the cost of the product. I fully agree with the parent comment here. Tesla likely told JD to go fly a kite and JD's enterprising sales folks went to Detroit and conjured up a nice fluff piece. Or, maybe this is a sign of Detroit starting sling mud because, too little too late. From my perspective I hope Detroit gets their act together quicker than they have been as I'd like more choice for EV. I don't own any Tesla products, but I likely will in the next 3-5 years if the current landscape of EV options doesn't significantly change. I like the idea of a lot of the concepts Tesla has brought to market, but as a consumer I don't really care what badge is on the vehicle anymore. It's unfortunate those who are competing are often lacking in many ways when compared to the current market leader.

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tomjakubowski 6y ago

Their awards this year seem to be mostly given to non-US brands, with the exception of awards for trucks. https://www.jdpower.com/Cars/Ratings/Dependability https://www.jdpower.com/Cars/Ratings/Dependability

sdinsn 6y ago

From your link, Toyota got the most awards this year, with Nissan and Lexus (Lexus is owned by Toyota) getting 2 awards.

milkytron 6y ago
I meant if you look at years past. They have links to the rewards for each year.

api 6y ago

JD Power seems like the Gartner of automotive.

toddmorey 6y ago

I was wondering about that. I owed a Dodge in the 90s and was amazed to see Dodge today at the top of the list. I was ready to consider either that my "never again" philosophy to the brand needed an update or that the survey was a bit suspect.