4 ms·

Nuclear energy is dangerous, extractive, and wasteful. If Germany can make due without nuclear the world can.

TomMarius 6y ago
Germany is not making it without nuclear. They are buying power from abroad (mostly coal sourced) and opening new coal (!) and gas (less bad, but still bad) powerplants. While they're a net exporter on average, averages mislead and Germany buys a lot of power during winter. Nuclear is the least exploitative, least wasteful, least deadly and most safe power generation method. Every other method is at least 10 times less safe, more wasteful and more exploitative, going up to absurd amount of exploitation and waste in case of solar due to low conversion efficiency and the requirement of a large amount of rare elements and absolutely absurd amount of required land which should be nature and not solar panels - think about all the lost ecosystems when you drive past solar arrays (same goes for hydro, which completely destroys water ecosystems). https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy
- est31 6y ago
  > They are buying power from abroad In 2019, Germany was the biggest power exporter in europe. In 2018, Germany exported 50 TWh of energy, enough to power all of Portugal for an entire year [1]. In fact, neighbour countries had to install devices to prevent Germany from swamping their own networks with excess energy. Maybe there are days where Germany has to buy power. And yes, we have to import things like oil, LNG or coal (for which the newly built coal plant is btw). But the electric power production of Germany over an entire year is more than its demand, so Germany is a exporter. [1]: https://www.unendlich-viel-energie.de/themen/strom/verfehlte-ausbauziele-und-hoher-stromexport https://www.unendlich-viel-energie.de/themen/strom/verfehlte...
  - TomMarius 6y ago
    Yes, I know that. Changes nothing about Germany requiring other countries' help during winter - help that comes from nuclear and coal sources, not 'renewable'. That means that while Germany can use the current situation to decommission their nuclear power plants, if everyone did, everyone would be without power during winter. And then you have to count the destruction of nature the 'renewable' sources are causing.
    - est31 6y ago
      Personally I think that until we figure out economical long term seasonal storage, we should build LNG plants and use them during the winter. They burn very cleanly compared to coal and also cause less CO2. Overall this would still mean a reduction over an all-fossil energy mix. Then, one day renewably generated hydrogen or methane can be used instead of the extracted LNG.
      - TomMarius 6y ago
        How do you generate the bulk of energy? Solar and hydro is a major natural disaster (mostly through ecosystem destruction, but also mining) and wind is not exactly safe. What else can you do?
- imtringued 6y ago
  Can you show me which part of this graph [0] indicates that Germany is opening new coal? What about CO2 emissions [1]? Shouldn't they go up because Germany is so dependent on new coal? Okay, lets investigate the claim about Germany buying a lot of power during winter. [2] shows that the seasonal variance in the renewable share is reasonably low. There is one big 9% dip in November but that is about it. That same site also has a nice export chart [3]. Germany did indeed import 1.2TWh from France in December but what about the other months? Amount of electricity Germany imported from France in 2019 January 130GWh February 543GWh March 962 GWh April 848 Gwh May 1.8 TWh June 2.1 TWh Juli 1.6 TWh August 2.2 TWh September 1.7 TWh October 1.1 TWh November 673 GWh December 1.2 TWh Well, I'm actually surprised by this myself. Germany imported very little energy during Winter and a huge amount during every other season. Overall french electricity imports make up 2.8% of energy consumed in Germany. In terms of energy trade this is quite a significant number but in terms of energy self sufficiency that is almost nothing. [0] https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/styles/gallery_image/public/paragraphs/images/fig2-gross-power-production-germany-1990-2019.png?itok=b60n1-1q https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/styles/g... [1] https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/styles/gallery_image/public/paragraphs/images/ghg-emissionsgrafik-trend-1990-2019-nach-ksg-einteilung-0.png?itok=Htalj0Wh https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/styles/g... [2] https://www.energy-charts.de/ren_share_de.htm?source=ren-share&period=monthly&year=2019 https://www.energy-charts.de/ren_share_de.htm?source=ren-sha... [3] https://www.energy-charts.de/exchange_de.htm?source=de_pf&year=2019&month=12 https://www.energy-charts.de/exchange_de.htm?source=de_pf&ye...
  - est31 6y ago
    > Can you show me which part of this graph [0] indicates that Germany is opening new coal? Look up Datteln 4. It's one block of an existing coal plant that opened in 1964 with the other three blocks ceasing operation in 2014 and the new block having opened this year. So it's not in your graph yet but even if it were I doubt it would show up. Not much in the great picture, but still a sad symbol. Agree with the other parts of your comment.
robviren 6y ago
Can you point to a power source that is bloodless?

Germany is not making it without nuclear. They are buying power from abroad (mostly coal sourced) and opening new coal (!) and gas (less bad, but still bad) powerplants. While they're a net exporter on average, averages mislead and Germany buys a lot of power during winter. Nuclear is the least exploitative, least wasteful, least deadly and most safe power generation method. Every other method is at least 10 times less safe, more wasteful and more exploitative, going up to absurd amount of exploitation and waste in case of solar due to low conversion efficiency and the requirement of a large amount of rare elements and absolutely absurd amount of required land which should be nature and not solar panels - think about all the lost ecosystems when you drive past solar arrays (same goes for hydro, which completely destroys water ecosystems). https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy

est31 6y ago
> They are buying power from abroad In 2019, Germany was the biggest power exporter in europe. In 2018, Germany exported 50 TWh of energy, enough to power all of Portugal for an entire year [1]. In fact, neighbour countries had to install devices to prevent Germany from swamping their own networks with excess energy. Maybe there are days where Germany has to buy power. And yes, we have to import things like oil, LNG or coal (for which the newly built coal plant is btw). But the electric power production of Germany over an entire year is more than its demand, so Germany is a exporter. [1]: https://www.unendlich-viel-energie.de/themen/strom/verfehlte-ausbauziele-und-hoher-stromexport https://www.unendlich-viel-energie.de/themen/strom/verfehlte...
- TomMarius 6y ago
  Yes, I know that. Changes nothing about Germany requiring other countries' help during winter - help that comes from nuclear and coal sources, not 'renewable'. That means that while Germany can use the current situation to decommission their nuclear power plants, if everyone did, everyone would be without power during winter. And then you have to count the destruction of nature the 'renewable' sources are causing.
  - est31 6y ago
    Personally I think that until we figure out economical long term seasonal storage, we should build LNG plants and use them during the winter. They burn very cleanly compared to coal and also cause less CO2. Overall this would still mean a reduction over an all-fossil energy mix. Then, one day renewably generated hydrogen or methane can be used instead of the extracted LNG.
    - TomMarius 6y ago
      How do you generate the bulk of energy? Solar and hydro is a major natural disaster (mostly through ecosystem destruction, but also mining) and wind is not exactly safe. What else can you do?
imtringued 6y ago
Can you show me which part of this graph [0] indicates that Germany is opening new coal? What about CO2 emissions [1]? Shouldn't they go up because Germany is so dependent on new coal? Okay, lets investigate the claim about Germany buying a lot of power during winter. [2] shows that the seasonal variance in the renewable share is reasonably low. There is one big 9% dip in November but that is about it. That same site also has a nice export chart [3]. Germany did indeed import 1.2TWh from France in December but what about the other months? Amount of electricity Germany imported from France in 2019 January 130GWh February 543GWh March 962 GWh April 848 Gwh May 1.8 TWh June 2.1 TWh Juli 1.6 TWh August 2.2 TWh September 1.7 TWh October 1.1 TWh November 673 GWh December 1.2 TWh Well, I'm actually surprised by this myself. Germany imported very little energy during Winter and a huge amount during every other season. Overall french electricity imports make up 2.8% of energy consumed in Germany. In terms of energy trade this is quite a significant number but in terms of energy self sufficiency that is almost nothing. [0] https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/styles/gallery_image/public/paragraphs/images/fig2-gross-power-production-germany-1990-2019.png?itok=b60n1-1q https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/styles/g... [1] https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/styles/gallery_image/public/paragraphs/images/ghg-emissionsgrafik-trend-1990-2019-nach-ksg-einteilung-0.png?itok=Htalj0Wh https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/styles/g... [2] https://www.energy-charts.de/ren_share_de.htm?source=ren-share&period=monthly&year=2019 https://www.energy-charts.de/ren_share_de.htm?source=ren-sha... [3] https://www.energy-charts.de/exchange_de.htm?source=de_pf&year=2019&month=12 https://www.energy-charts.de/exchange_de.htm?source=de_pf&ye...
- est31 6y ago
  > Can you show me which part of this graph [0] indicates that Germany is opening new coal? Look up Datteln 4. It's one block of an existing coal plant that opened in 1964 with the other three blocks ceasing operation in 2014 and the new block having opened this year. So it's not in your graph yet but even if it were I doubt it would show up. Not much in the great picture, but still a sad symbol. Agree with the other parts of your comment.

robviren 6y ago

Can you point to a power source that is bloodless?