3 ms·

Many people would, out of habit or expedience, refer to "women" instead of "people who menstruate." However, in this specific context, Rowling's implication is

Many people would, out of habit or expedience, refer to "women" instead of "people who menstruate." However, in this specific context, Rowling's implication is that trans women are not women. "Most of modern society" would probably be disturbed by that implication.

enimodas 6y ago
I'm pretty sure you're in a filter bubble.
- veridies 6y ago
  I'm sure I am! Look, there are not a lot of great polls about people's opinion on whether sex and gender are different. PRRI has a poll on general support for trans people (https://www.prri.org/research/americas-growing-support-for-transgender-rights/ https://www.prri.org/research/americas-growing-support-for-t...), which suggests that 62% of Americans support letting trans people serve in the military and a plurality oppose bathroom bills. It also shows that a majority of Americans believe that there are only two genders, but only 43% of Americans believe that "strongly," and of course you could believe that sex and gender are different while also believing in only two genders. I don't see clear proof one way or another, but this poll suggests that probably about half of Americans believe that gender can differ from sex. (I'll admit that for non-Americans, it's probably much lower.)
SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
Most of modern society freely says things like "women menstruate", and would be hopelessly confused by the idea that such a banal statement has transphobic implications.
- veridies 6y ago
  Absolutely. But the question isn't how ordinary people would perceive it; it was how Rowling intended it. Rowling's goal was to say that trans women are not women. She used a dogwhistle instead of saying that directly. But what other purpose could she have been trying to accomplish there?
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    She explained her purpose in a longer blog post (https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/ https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-...). She thinks (and I tend to agree) that phrases like "people who menstruate" are terribly degrading, and emphasizes at length that "trans rights are human rights". She does also have some concerns about trans women in women-only spaces, but depending on which polls you read, either a slim majority or large plurality of people agree with her concerns.
    - veridies 6y ago
      I have read that article. She argues obliquely that trans women are not women[1], and she suggests that trans women are often dangerous predators[2]. Her statement that "trans rights are human rights" is an intentional dismissal of that opinion as a form of virtue signaling[3]. She may believe that some trans women are women, but in general she believes that there is a "material difference" between trans women and women. As for the term "people who menstruate," I could see how that could be true. I could also see a term that's designed to specify a subset of women (pre-menopausal cis women who menstruate) as well as a subset of trans men. It is not being used as a general replacement for "women"; it is specifying the relevant people more precisely than the word "women" would. Isn't that specificity and accuracy what we want to see? [1] "I know transition will be a solution for some gender dysphoric people, although I’m also aware through extensive research that studies have consistently shown that between 60-90% of gender dysphoric teens will grow out of their dysphoria." [2] ", I do not want to make natal girls and women less safe. When you throw open the doors of bathrooms and changing rooms to any man who believes or feels he’s a woman – and, as I’ve said, gender confirmation certificates may now be granted without any need for surgery or hormones – then you open the door to any and all men who wish to come inside." [3] "It would be so much easier to tweet the approved hashtags – because of course trans rights are human rights and of course trans lives matter – scoop up the woke cookies and bask in a virtue-signalling afterglow."
      - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

enimodas 6y ago

I'm pretty sure you're in a filter bubble.

veridies 6y ago
I'm sure I am! Look, there are not a lot of great polls about people's opinion on whether sex and gender are different. PRRI has a poll on general support for trans people (https://www.prri.org/research/americas-growing-support-for-transgender-rights/ https://www.prri.org/research/americas-growing-support-for-t...), which suggests that 62% of Americans support letting trans people serve in the military and a plurality oppose bathroom bills. It also shows that a majority of Americans believe that there are only two genders, but only 43% of Americans believe that "strongly," and of course you could believe that sex and gender are different while also believing in only two genders. I don't see clear proof one way or another, but this poll suggests that probably about half of Americans believe that gender can differ from sex. (I'll admit that for non-Americans, it's probably much lower.)

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

Most of modern society freely says things like "women menstruate", and would be hopelessly confused by the idea that such a banal statement has transphobic implications.

veridies 6y ago
Absolutely. But the question isn't how ordinary people would perceive it; it was how Rowling intended it. Rowling's goal was to say that trans women are not women. She used a dogwhistle instead of saying that directly. But what other purpose could she have been trying to accomplish there?
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  She explained her purpose in a longer blog post (https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/ https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-...). She thinks (and I tend to agree) that phrases like "people who menstruate" are terribly degrading, and emphasizes at length that "trans rights are human rights". She does also have some concerns about trans women in women-only spaces, but depending on which polls you read, either a slim majority or large plurality of people agree with her concerns.
  - veridies 6y ago
    I have read that article. She argues obliquely that trans women are not women[1], and she suggests that trans women are often dangerous predators[2]. Her statement that "trans rights are human rights" is an intentional dismissal of that opinion as a form of virtue signaling[3]. She may believe that some trans women are women, but in general she believes that there is a "material difference" between trans women and women. As for the term "people who menstruate," I could see how that could be true. I could also see a term that's designed to specify a subset of women (pre-menopausal cis women who menstruate) as well as a subset of trans men. It is not being used as a general replacement for "women"; it is specifying the relevant people more precisely than the word "women" would. Isn't that specificity and accuracy what we want to see? [1] "I know transition will be a solution for some gender dysphoric people, although I’m also aware through extensive research that studies have consistently shown that between 60-90% of gender dysphoric teens will grow out of their dysphoria." [2] ", I do not want to make natal girls and women less safe. When you throw open the doors of bathrooms and changing rooms to any man who believes or feels he’s a woman – and, as I’ve said, gender confirmation certificates may now be granted without any need for surgery or hormones – then you open the door to any and all men who wish to come inside." [3] "It would be so much easier to tweet the approved hashtags – because of course trans rights are human rights and of course trans lives matter – scoop up the woke cookies and bask in a virtue-signalling afterglow."
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago