30 ms·

Yes. And it has been used to cure some things you wouldn't believe. Here is the shortlist of the more serious illness that the PaleoMedicina group in Hungary ha

by kesor 6y ago

Yes. And it has been used to cure some things you wouldn't believe. Here is the shortlist of the more serious illness that the PaleoMedicina group in Hungary have shown to effectively treat using their low-carb PKD protocol https://justmeat.co/wiki/pkd/ https://justmeat.co/wiki/pkd/ https://www.paleomedicina.com/en/paleolithic_ketogenic_diet_PKD_in_chronic_diseases_clinical_and_research_data https://www.paleomedicina.com/en/paleolithic_ketogenic_diet_... Here are testimonies of even more people healing their serious diseases on a purely carnivore and zero-carb diet https://meatrx.com/category/success-stories/ https://meatrx.com/category/success-stories/

unalakleet 6y ago
Zerocarb has healed by IBS and dramatically improved my mental health (with counseling of course). I was never overweight, but lost a lot of weight anyways, have a much more fit look.
amINeolib 6y ago
With URLs like that, it makes me wonder if they are telling the whole story. I don't understand why people make science "pointed"? Do people get extra credit for not being the status quo? Heck all I want in Nutrition is some objective data. Someone be that scientist.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- randomchars 6y ago
  > Heck all I want in Nutrition is some objective data. Someone be that scientist. This makes me very-very sad, but unfortunately that doesn't exists. Not only are studies are mostly observation, where you have to answer questions about what you eat (I can barely recall what I ate 3 days ago, not 3 months), and are usually funded by a corporation. You can basically find a study for everything and it's complete opposite.
- nradov 6y ago
  Unfortunately almost no human nutrition studies meet evidence-based medicine standards. And in fairness to the scientists, the constraints imposed by funding and ethics make it impossible to do really meaningful research. All we get are observational studies which show some correlation, often mixed up with multiple uncontrolled confounding factors. So if you want to try a different diet like extreme low carb or whatever then go ahead. Maybe it will work for you, maybe it won't. In the worst case it probably won't kill you.
  - shlant 6y ago
    > In the worst case it probably won't kill you Unfortunately, that is also not necessarily true: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19027591/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19027591/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15679508/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15679508/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15329077/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15329077/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11575609/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11575609/
    - PudgePacket 6y ago
      > https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23273808/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23273808/ > Conclusions: The KD is a safe and efficacious therapy for intractable childhood epilepsy in Chinese children. The influence of age on efficacy is worth further investigation. ?
      - shlant 6y ago
        edited. Thanks for catching that. I have a lot of different links in my notes haha
    - keymone 6y ago
      There’s “probably” in GP’s comment.
- bluGill 6y ago
  Nutrition studies come in two forms: these results apply to those confined to a hospital bed (or prison cell) and probably do not generalize to the normal population ; and despite our best efforts we were unable to get the subjects to adhere to their assigned diet. Things aren't quite that bad, but it is close. It doesn't help that many people have a bias and look for ways to bias their study. Studies that don't control for smoking find vegetarian diets are a lot healthier than those that do.
jmkerr 6y ago
'Paleo medicine' sounds like living a long, healthy life and dying an old man at 30.
- throwaway_kufu 6y ago
  Why? Paleolithic area humans may have had a life expectancy of 30-35 but it had nothing to do with diet, it has to do with so many dying as children (obviously not diet related), but once you passed the age of 5 you were generally going to live to your 60’s.
  - shlant 6y ago
    > it had nothing to do with diet > obviously not diet related You are making some pretty black and white statements without any evidence to support it but giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming all that is true, that does not mean that if you eat like them you will live long.
    - throwaway_kufu 6y ago
      If you really cared to learn about life expectancy of Paleolithic area it’s pretty simple to google, and Where did I claim if you eat like them you will live long like them?
- shlant 6y ago
  exactly. The diet is one big Appeal to Nature fallacy
  - amanaplanacanal 6y ago
    Possibly. On the other hand, it does makes sense to feed animals a diet to which they are evolutionarily adapted. Visit a zoo sometime and ask what each animal eats. They are all feed something intended to be nutritionally similar to their natural diet. Because that’s what works.
    - 6y ago
lambdaba 6y ago
Thank you for posting this. I too have healed "incurable" conditions with an (almost) all-meat diet. I hope the message spreads quickly, and I'm sure it will, there are probably hundreds of thousands of similar cases by now (judging only by the popularity of some subreddits).
i_cannot_hack 6y ago
I also think the medical aspect of the ketogenic diet is somewhat promising, but I'm very sceptical of the work put out by the PaleoMedicina group. Mainly for 3 reasons: 1. They have a vested interest in presenting their therapy in an overly positive manner, as they sell it for hundreds of dollars per day at their clinic. 2. I've read a study published by them which contained some hyperbole that I can only attribute to either incompetence or deception [1]. In short, they described a newly diagnosed type 1 diabetes patient which did not need insulin when not consuming carbohydrates (completely normal during the honeymoon phase of T1D) and had an increase of C-peptide shortly after diagnosis (also a common occurrence for many during the honeymoon [2]). From this (and nothing else) they draw the completely unfounded conclusion that "the paleolithic ketogenic diet may halt or reverse autoimmune processes destructing pancreatic beta cell function in T1DM." 3. Their website contains language and phrasing that I would only except from charlatans, and not from serious medial practitioners offering an unproven and unconventional treatment. Such as "Get rid of the inconvenience of visiting doctors: We cure you." and "A final cure for your disease" (above references to cancer on the same page, no less). [1] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/267810000_Type_1_diabetes_mellitus_successfully_managed_with_the_paleolithic_ketogenic_diet https://www.researchgate.net/publication/267810000_Type_1_di... [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21219422/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21219422/
- randomchars 6y ago
  While I'm on almost exactly the same diet they're promoting, I have to agree. I considered going to them, when I was first starting this diet, but their prices are absurd: three times what I'm paying for consultation to an already very expensive private doctor. It's very sad that there doesn't seem to be a player in this field (nutrition) who's impartial and not motivated by monetary gain, that you can trust.
shlant 6y ago
do you have any sources that aren't from "justmeat", "paleomedicine" or "meatrx" which are clearly extremely biased?

by kesor 6y ago

unalakleet 6y ago

Zerocarb has healed by IBS and dramatically improved my mental health (with counseling of course). I was never overweight, but lost a lot of weight anyways, have a much more fit look.

amINeolib 6y ago

With URLs like that, it makes me wonder if they are telling the whole story. I don't understand why people make science "pointed"? Do people get extra credit for not being the status quo? Heck all I want in Nutrition is some objective data. Someone be that scientist.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
randomchars 6y ago
> Heck all I want in Nutrition is some objective data. Someone be that scientist. This makes me very-very sad, but unfortunately that doesn't exists. Not only are studies are mostly observation, where you have to answer questions about what you eat (I can barely recall what I ate 3 days ago, not 3 months), and are usually funded by a corporation. You can basically find a study for everything and it's complete opposite.
nradov 6y ago
Unfortunately almost no human nutrition studies meet evidence-based medicine standards. And in fairness to the scientists, the constraints imposed by funding and ethics make it impossible to do really meaningful research. All we get are observational studies which show some correlation, often mixed up with multiple uncontrolled confounding factors. So if you want to try a different diet like extreme low carb or whatever then go ahead. Maybe it will work for you, maybe it won't. In the worst case it probably won't kill you.
- shlant 6y ago
  > In the worst case it probably won't kill you Unfortunately, that is also not necessarily true: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19027591/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19027591/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15679508/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15679508/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15329077/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15329077/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11575609/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11575609/
  - PudgePacket 6y ago
    > https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23273808/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23273808/ > Conclusions: The KD is a safe and efficacious therapy for intractable childhood epilepsy in Chinese children. The influence of age on efficacy is worth further investigation. ?
    - shlant 6y ago
      edited. Thanks for catching that. I have a lot of different links in my notes haha
  - keymone 6y ago
    There’s “probably” in GP’s comment.
bluGill 6y ago
Nutrition studies come in two forms: these results apply to those confined to a hospital bed (or prison cell) and probably do not generalize to the normal population ; and despite our best efforts we were unable to get the subjects to adhere to their assigned diet. Things aren't quite that bad, but it is close. It doesn't help that many people have a bias and look for ways to bias their study. Studies that don't control for smoking find vegetarian diets are a lot healthier than those that do.

jmkerr 6y ago

'Paleo medicine' sounds like living a long, healthy life and dying an old man at 30.

throwaway_kufu 6y ago
Why? Paleolithic area humans may have had a life expectancy of 30-35 but it had nothing to do with diet, it has to do with so many dying as children (obviously not diet related), but once you passed the age of 5 you were generally going to live to your 60’s.
- shlant 6y ago
  > it had nothing to do with diet > obviously not diet related You are making some pretty black and white statements without any evidence to support it but giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming all that is true, that does not mean that if you eat like them you will live long.
  - throwaway_kufu 6y ago
    If you really cared to learn about life expectancy of Paleolithic area it’s pretty simple to google, and Where did I claim if you eat like them you will live long like them?
shlant 6y ago
exactly. The diet is one big Appeal to Nature fallacy
- amanaplanacanal 6y ago
  Possibly. On the other hand, it does makes sense to feed animals a diet to which they are evolutionarily adapted. Visit a zoo sometime and ask what each animal eats. They are all feed something intended to be nutritionally similar to their natural diet. Because that’s what works.
  - 6y ago

lambdaba 6y ago

Thank you for posting this. I too have healed "incurable" conditions with an (almost) all-meat diet. I hope the message spreads quickly, and I'm sure it will, there are probably hundreds of thousands of similar cases by now (judging only by the popularity of some subreddits).

i_cannot_hack 6y ago

I also think the medical aspect of the ketogenic diet is somewhat promising, but I'm very sceptical of the work put out by the PaleoMedicina group. Mainly for 3 reasons: 1. They have a vested interest in presenting their therapy in an overly positive manner, as they sell it for hundreds of dollars per day at their clinic. 2. I've read a study published by them which contained some hyperbole that I can only attribute to either incompetence or deception [1]. In short, they described a newly diagnosed type 1 diabetes patient which did not need insulin when not consuming carbohydrates (completely normal during the honeymoon phase of T1D) and had an increase of C-peptide shortly after diagnosis (also a common occurrence for many during the honeymoon [2]). From this (and nothing else) they draw the completely unfounded conclusion that "the paleolithic ketogenic diet may halt or reverse autoimmune processes destructing pancreatic beta cell function in T1DM." 3. Their website contains language and phrasing that I would only except from charlatans, and not from serious medial practitioners offering an unproven and unconventional treatment. Such as "Get rid of the inconvenience of visiting doctors: We cure you." and "A final cure for your disease" (above references to cancer on the same page, no less). [1] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/267810000_Type_1_diabetes_mellitus_successfully_managed_with_the_paleolithic_ketogenic_diet https://www.researchgate.net/publication/267810000_Type_1_di... [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21219422/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21219422/

randomchars 6y ago
While I'm on almost exactly the same diet they're promoting, I have to agree. I considered going to them, when I was first starting this diet, but their prices are absurd: three times what I'm paying for consultation to an already very expensive private doctor. It's very sad that there doesn't seem to be a player in this field (nutrition) who's impartial and not motivated by monetary gain, that you can trust.

shlant 6y ago

do you have any sources that aren't from "justmeat", "paleomedicine" or "meatrx" which are clearly extremely biased?