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I don't even think it's logically valid. I think if you raise your children well, the chance that they'll be there for you in old age is very high. If you don't

I don't even think it's logically valid. I think if you raise your children well, the chance that they'll be there for you in old age is very high. If you don't have kids, the chance you will have friends that loyal is low. Blood is thicker than water, people should be realistic. How do you measure that statistically? All you have are personal experiences. Saying, "not statistics, isn't valid" is obtuse, it leaves you unable to understand anything that is difficult to measure at scale.

evgen 6y ago
> Blood is thicker than water, people should be realistic. Somewhat off-tangent here, but this is a frequent misunderstanding of this particular quote. The actual quote is: “the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb” and it means the exact opposite of what we now use it for. The intended meaning is that relationships entered into as adults are much stronger and deeper than those we are forced into through accident of birth simply because they are intentional. While I hope my children will be there for me in old age, I know that I will be there for my wife and closest friends even though we are not bound by any particular genetic imperative.
- greggman3 6y ago
  This fits my family to some degree. My dad was a little upset that his mom left so much to some friends over him. But, he lived 2000 miles away and while he made a point of calling to talk to her every day she still probably had a stronger relationship with the people that she hung out with than him at the end of it.
- bananaface 6y ago
  I think the reason the meaning shifted is that the original meaning is not particularly accurate. Although that said, I'm looking into it and it doesn't seem settled that that is the etymylogical root. That root also specifically refers to blood shed in battle. My guess is it was war propaganda.
  - depr 6y ago
    I think the reason is the shorter version is easier to remember, and people love to attribute genuine wisdom to these kinds of statements. Because the shorter version is easier to remember it is near at hand and got used more.
    - bananaface 6y ago
      I don't think people are that dumb tbh.
      - ryder9 6y ago
        then you haven't been paying very much attention have you
- wolfhumble 6y ago
  > Somewhat off-tangent here, but this is a frequent misunderstanding of this particular quote. The actual quote is: “the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb” and it means the exact opposite of what we now use it for. I hadn't heard of that expression before, so I looked a little at the corresponding Wikipedia page [0] and the sources that talks about this quote [1 and 2]. I also looked at Quora question about the quote [3]. From what I understand, there is no way one with any certainty can say that: "the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb” => "blood is thicker than water". There doesn't seem to be a direct "the blood of the covenant . . ." quote either. My own thought: I think it is possible that the meaning of both quotes can be true at the same time: a) If you make a blood covenant with someone => Strong bond, and maybe stronger than with family members. b) If something serious happens in your life, family bonds tend to be stronger than that of a friend, at least if you don't have some type of covenant (in a broad sense) with that friend. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_is_thicker_than_water https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_is_thicker_than_water [1] https://archive.org/details/shaggydogsblacks00jack/page/94/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/shaggydogsblacks00jack/page/94/m... [2] http://www.bac2torah.com/covenant-Print.htm#SectionII http://www.bac2torah.com/covenant-Print.htm#SectionII [3] https://www.quora.com/Where-did-the-phrase-The-blood-of-the-covenant-is-thicker-than-the-water-of-the-womb-come-from https://www.quora.com/Where-did-the-phrase-The-blood-of-the-...
- virgil_disgr4ce 6y ago
  Wouldn't "off-tangent" be closer to the original point than off of it? Heh
- SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
  That appears to be a matter of discussion - the oldest current recordings don't have the conventant comparison and it seems to be a couple of scholars claiming that bit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_is_thicker_than_water https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_is_thicker_than_water
jdietrich 6y ago
>I think if you raise your children well, the chance that they'll be there for you in old age is very high. Our old friend Dunning-Kruger rather spoils this strategy. I know many people who have been abandoned by their children, but none who could proffer even the vaguest hint of why they might be to blame. Very few people intentionally set out to alienate their children, but plenty of people do it anyway.
- scottLobster 6y ago
  Well we can define "having enough self awareness to acknowledge one's flaws and failings" as a precursor for "raising children well". Or more succinctly: "Narcissists don't raise children well". Note that the entire perception of children has changed over the previous century, and the modern notion of emotionally as well as physically providing for children as a universal constant is a VERY new concept. We still haven't figured out how to do it en masse, although a decent chunk of the population seems to figure it out on their own.
twelve40 6y ago
> if you raise your children well straight up no true Scotsman. Literally, no true Scotsman.
- bananaface 6y ago
  I mean I deliberately said the equivalent of "True Scots usually wear kilts, but some don't," so not really.
- scottLobster 6y ago
  Not really, it's a valid correlation that children raised well generally have better relationships with their parents. Sometimes children are raised well and turn out to be little shits, but given that we're not drafting a scientific study in the comment section conversational generalities should be forgiven, unless you want every conversation to be so paralyzed by pedantry that no real content is discussed.
  - yownie 6y ago
    > it's a valid correlation could you show us that data on that correlation to us from somewhere besides out your ass then?
Aeolun 6y ago
> If you don't have kids, the chance you will have friends that loyal is low. Probably have friends that loyal, but they’ll all be the same age and you might just end up being the last one. Hopefully your kids have a comfortable margin on you in your old age.

evgen 6y ago

> Blood is thicker than water, people should be realistic. Somewhat off-tangent here, but this is a frequent misunderstanding of this particular quote. The actual quote is: “the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb” and it means the exact opposite of what we now use it for. The intended meaning is that relationships entered into as adults are much stronger and deeper than those we are forced into through accident of birth simply because they are intentional. While I hope my children will be there for me in old age, I know that I will be there for my wife and closest friends even though we are not bound by any particular genetic imperative.

greggman3 6y ago
This fits my family to some degree. My dad was a little upset that his mom left so much to some friends over him. But, he lived 2000 miles away and while he made a point of calling to talk to her every day she still probably had a stronger relationship with the people that she hung out with than him at the end of it.
bananaface 6y ago
I think the reason the meaning shifted is that the original meaning is not particularly accurate. Although that said, I'm looking into it and it doesn't seem settled that that is the etymylogical root. That root also specifically refers to blood shed in battle. My guess is it was war propaganda.
- depr 6y ago
  I think the reason is the shorter version is easier to remember, and people love to attribute genuine wisdom to these kinds of statements. Because the shorter version is easier to remember it is near at hand and got used more.
  - bananaface 6y ago
    I don't think people are that dumb tbh.
    - ryder9 6y ago
      then you haven't been paying very much attention have you
wolfhumble 6y ago
> Somewhat off-tangent here, but this is a frequent misunderstanding of this particular quote. The actual quote is: “the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb” and it means the exact opposite of what we now use it for. I hadn't heard of that expression before, so I looked a little at the corresponding Wikipedia page [0] and the sources that talks about this quote [1 and 2]. I also looked at Quora question about the quote [3]. From what I understand, there is no way one with any certainty can say that: "the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb” => "blood is thicker than water". There doesn't seem to be a direct "the blood of the covenant . . ." quote either. My own thought: I think it is possible that the meaning of both quotes can be true at the same time: a) If you make a blood covenant with someone => Strong bond, and maybe stronger than with family members. b) If something serious happens in your life, family bonds tend to be stronger than that of a friend, at least if you don't have some type of covenant (in a broad sense) with that friend. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_is_thicker_than_water https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_is_thicker_than_water [1] https://archive.org/details/shaggydogsblacks00jack/page/94/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/shaggydogsblacks00jack/page/94/m... [2] http://www.bac2torah.com/covenant-Print.htm#SectionII http://www.bac2torah.com/covenant-Print.htm#SectionII [3] https://www.quora.com/Where-did-the-phrase-The-blood-of-the-covenant-is-thicker-than-the-water-of-the-womb-come-from https://www.quora.com/Where-did-the-phrase-The-blood-of-the-...
virgil_disgr4ce 6y ago
Wouldn't "off-tangent" be closer to the original point than off of it? Heh
SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
That appears to be a matter of discussion - the oldest current recordings don't have the conventant comparison and it seems to be a couple of scholars claiming that bit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_is_thicker_than_water https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_is_thicker_than_water

jdietrich 6y ago

>I think if you raise your children well, the chance that they'll be there for you in old age is very high. Our old friend Dunning-Kruger rather spoils this strategy. I know many people who have been abandoned by their children, but none who could proffer even the vaguest hint of why they might be to blame. Very few people intentionally set out to alienate their children, but plenty of people do it anyway.

scottLobster 6y ago
Well we can define "having enough self awareness to acknowledge one's flaws and failings" as a precursor for "raising children well". Or more succinctly: "Narcissists don't raise children well". Note that the entire perception of children has changed over the previous century, and the modern notion of emotionally as well as physically providing for children as a universal constant is a VERY new concept. We still haven't figured out how to do it en masse, although a decent chunk of the population seems to figure it out on their own.

twelve40 6y ago

> if you raise your children well straight up no true Scotsman. Literally, no true Scotsman.

bananaface 6y ago
I mean I deliberately said the equivalent of "True Scots usually wear kilts, but some don't," so not really.
scottLobster 6y ago
Not really, it's a valid correlation that children raised well generally have better relationships with their parents. Sometimes children are raised well and turn out to be little shits, but given that we're not drafting a scientific study in the comment section conversational generalities should be forgiven, unless you want every conversation to be so paralyzed by pedantry that no real content is discussed.
- yownie 6y ago
  > it's a valid correlation could you show us that data on that correlation to us from somewhere besides out your ass then?

Aeolun 6y ago

> If you don't have kids, the chance you will have friends that loyal is low. Probably have friends that loyal, but they’ll all be the same age and you might just end up being the last one. Hopefully your kids have a comfortable margin on you in your old age.