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> Do people actually have fights like this with management at their companies? There was a time when I thought this video was funny: https://www.youtube.com/w

> Do people actually have fights like this with management at their companies? There was a time when I thought this video was funny: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

NateEag 6y ago
I used to think that was hilarious. These days I can only look at it and think "the expert is terrible at calm confrontation and good communication. There would be no problem if he had developed those skills."
- _ph_ 6y ago
  I have to agree. Of course the requests in this sketch were obviously silly and not doable when taken literally. But my experience is, that the requestor of a new feature often has big problems communicating that request. It could be that the requestor describes something, which sounds almost as silly and contradictional as those seven lines, the actual request is something different, which actually makes sense. But just is completely badly communicated. It is important to rule out miscommunications. Contradictions often are not obvious to the requestor. It also helps to understand, which of the contradicting requirements can be dropped to resolve the problem. Sometimes the problem is just a small feature which made it to the requirements, because no one considered it a problem. That doesn't mean, I haven't gotten requests which were as silly as in the sketch and had discussions along the lines shown :) And of course, I never hesitate to speak up about actual issues.
- Aeolun 6y ago
  That has to come from two sides though. The people in this sketch are clearly not interested in listening to what the expert says either. Getting sensible requirements is not only on the expert.
  - NateEag 6y ago
    Sure. Both sides need to have good faith. But the expert is the one who can know if the requirements are sensible. In requirements gathering, the whole job is to hear people's attempts to describe their problem and figure out what problem they actually have. By definition they don't have your expertise, or they wouldn't need to talk to you. So, of course they will say contradictory things and use terms completely incorrectly - they cannot do anything else. That's why they hired you. The expert in this scenario gets hung up on their incorrect language and gets flustered and stymied, telling them "What you want is impossible!" What they _said_ is impossible. It's our job to persistently, patiently, calmly help them understand their needs, without judging them for needing our help. I'm not particularly good at it, but I understand the mission.
pintxo 6y ago
Still think it's funny. But yes, it's no fun while you are the expert.

NateEag 6y ago

I used to think that was hilarious. These days I can only look at it and think "the expert is terrible at calm confrontation and good communication. There would be no problem if he had developed those skills."

_ph_ 6y ago
I have to agree. Of course the requests in this sketch were obviously silly and not doable when taken literally. But my experience is, that the requestor of a new feature often has big problems communicating that request. It could be that the requestor describes something, which sounds almost as silly and contradictional as those seven lines, the actual request is something different, which actually makes sense. But just is completely badly communicated. It is important to rule out miscommunications. Contradictions often are not obvious to the requestor. It also helps to understand, which of the contradicting requirements can be dropped to resolve the problem. Sometimes the problem is just a small feature which made it to the requirements, because no one considered it a problem. That doesn't mean, I haven't gotten requests which were as silly as in the sketch and had discussions along the lines shown :) And of course, I never hesitate to speak up about actual issues.
Aeolun 6y ago
That has to come from two sides though. The people in this sketch are clearly not interested in listening to what the expert says either. Getting sensible requirements is not only on the expert.
- NateEag 6y ago
  Sure. Both sides need to have good faith. But the expert is the one who can know if the requirements are sensible. In requirements gathering, the whole job is to hear people's attempts to describe their problem and figure out what problem they actually have. By definition they don't have your expertise, or they wouldn't need to talk to you. So, of course they will say contradictory things and use terms completely incorrectly - they cannot do anything else. That's why they hired you. The expert in this scenario gets hung up on their incorrect language and gets flustered and stymied, telling them "What you want is impossible!" What they _said_ is impossible. It's our job to persistently, patiently, calmly help them understand their needs, without judging them for needing our help. I'm not particularly good at it, but I understand the mission.

pintxo 6y ago

Still think it's funny. But yes, it's no fun while you are the expert.