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Can someone explain how foreign students taking online classes gives them ‘full rein’ and is a threat to national security? > ICE also contends that a full sla

Can someone explain how foreign students taking online classes gives them ‘full rein’ and is a threat to national security? > ICE also contends that a full slate of virtual coursework compromises national security by giving foreign students free rein within the U.S., and says a freeze would undermine “the deference afforded administrative agencies in complex and interrelated fields like immigration enforcement.”

alexmingoia 6y ago
It's not a threat to national security. Unfortunately Congress has given the President the power to do pretty much whatever he wants for whatever reason with regard to immigration enforcement. The Immigration and Nationality Act gives the president authority to do whatever he wants: > "Whenever the president finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants..."
SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
No, and I doubt ICE can either. It's normal in this stage of a lawsuit to just throw out every argument you can brainstorm regardless of whether it makes much sense.
balls187 6y ago
ICE stated they would have "free rein" not "full rein." The argument is essentially that by allowing students to take online classes, they are free to travel anywhere within the united states. With mandatory in person classes, they would be restricted to being near campus. The federal government would have a harder time keeping track of students, as their schools would no longer really have an idea if the students are nearby or not. Which as others have pointed out, really grasping at straws, and if there is a a legitimate concern here, I'm certain that schools could come up with a system to keep tabs on their students visa holders.
- dmode 6y ago
  When I was a student, I did travel throughout the country during breaks, weekends, holidays etc. Didn't realize this was a thread to national security
- vdfs 6y ago
  Students will have many open tabs anyway
- amf12 6y ago
  > they are free to travel anywhere within the united states. Theoretically that's true for on-campus courses too. Most (at least that I know of) universities don't track attendance. So the students are still free to travel anywhere as long as they keep submitting online assignments and are physically present for any exams.
  - gwright 6y ago
    In the absence of the disruption to existing educational plans caused by the COVID-19 health emergency, why would foreign students (or any students) want to pay the regular tuition for 100% online instruction, and why would that require them to be physically in the US (i.e. to have a visa)? And why would a educational institution want to have the responsibility for keeping track of the physical location of students taking a 100% online instruction?
    - amf12 6y ago
      > In the absence of the disruption to existing educational plans caused by the COVID-19 health emergency But there is disruption caused due to the health emergency. > why would foreign students (or any students) want to pay the regular tuition for 100% online instruction They wouldn't and embassies are closed, so no new students are coming to attend the online courses. The students we are talking about are already in the US. The choice they have is drop out or continue with online courses. Whether they should pay 100% tuition or not is a separate argument. > and why would that require them to be physically in the US (i.e. to have a visa) They are already in the US. Would the US government be willing to cancel their home leases, car loans or leases, so on and so forth? If not I don't see any reason to kick them out. Educational programs are typically between 2-6 years. These people have their life in the US right now. I don't see any reason to kick them out. > And why would a educational institution want to have the responsibility for keeping track of the physical location of students taking a 100% online instruction? They don't have to is what my previous comment you replied to is implying.
mumblemumble 6y ago
Sounds very similar to the Courtier's Reply. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtier%27s_reply https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtier%27s_reply

alexmingoia 6y ago

It's not a threat to national security. Unfortunately Congress has given the President the power to do pretty much whatever he wants for whatever reason with regard to immigration enforcement. The Immigration and Nationality Act gives the president authority to do whatever he wants: > "Whenever the president finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants..."

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

No, and I doubt ICE can either. It's normal in this stage of a lawsuit to just throw out every argument you can brainstorm regardless of whether it makes much sense.

balls187 6y ago

ICE stated they would have "free rein" not "full rein." The argument is essentially that by allowing students to take online classes, they are free to travel anywhere within the united states. With mandatory in person classes, they would be restricted to being near campus. The federal government would have a harder time keeping track of students, as their schools would no longer really have an idea if the students are nearby or not. Which as others have pointed out, really grasping at straws, and if there is a a legitimate concern here, I'm certain that schools could come up with a system to keep tabs on their students visa holders.

dmode 6y ago
When I was a student, I did travel throughout the country during breaks, weekends, holidays etc. Didn't realize this was a thread to national security
vdfs 6y ago
Students will have many open tabs anyway
amf12 6y ago
> they are free to travel anywhere within the united states. Theoretically that's true for on-campus courses too. Most (at least that I know of) universities don't track attendance. So the students are still free to travel anywhere as long as they keep submitting online assignments and are physically present for any exams.
- gwright 6y ago
  In the absence of the disruption to existing educational plans caused by the COVID-19 health emergency, why would foreign students (or any students) want to pay the regular tuition for 100% online instruction, and why would that require them to be physically in the US (i.e. to have a visa)? And why would a educational institution want to have the responsibility for keeping track of the physical location of students taking a 100% online instruction?
  - amf12 6y ago
    > In the absence of the disruption to existing educational plans caused by the COVID-19 health emergency But there is disruption caused due to the health emergency. > why would foreign students (or any students) want to pay the regular tuition for 100% online instruction They wouldn't and embassies are closed, so no new students are coming to attend the online courses. The students we are talking about are already in the US. The choice they have is drop out or continue with online courses. Whether they should pay 100% tuition or not is a separate argument. > and why would that require them to be physically in the US (i.e. to have a visa) They are already in the US. Would the US government be willing to cancel their home leases, car loans or leases, so on and so forth? If not I don't see any reason to kick them out. Educational programs are typically between 2-6 years. These people have their life in the US right now. I don't see any reason to kick them out. > And why would a educational institution want to have the responsibility for keeping track of the physical location of students taking a 100% online instruction? They don't have to is what my previous comment you replied to is implying.

mumblemumble 6y ago

Sounds very similar to the Courtier's Reply. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtier%27s_reply https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtier%27s_reply