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> But this should never have been an issue to begin with, think of all the unnecessary stress and anxiety this has caused for the hundreds of thousands of inter

> But this should never have been an issue to begin with, think of all the unnecessary stress and anxiety this has caused for the hundreds of thousands of international students impacted by this. More importantly, the long term damage is done. The noise was heard loud and clear that America is only as competent as its leader. Prospective future students are likely going to be ultra careful before choosing this country.

DoofusOfDeath 6y ago
> The noise was heard loud and clear that America is only as competent as its leader. Honest question because I'm not a student of world politics: what countries have had consistently better governance over the last 20 years? Every time some possibility comes to mind, I quickly recall a reason to cross it off the list.
- jessaustin 6y ago
  Off the top of my head, I think of nations who have dealt effectively with the current health challenge: New Zealand, South Korea, Germany, etc.
  - burfog 6y ago
    South Korea's leader was following orders from a cult leader. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_South_Korean_political_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_South_Korean_political_sc... Germany has a huge self-inflicted migrant crisis. New Zealand seems to be heading down that path.
    - jessaustin 6y ago
      I love these wikipedia experts! Read your own link; Park is in prison. (Where the last five USA presidents should also be.) The only Germans who worry about this so-called "migrant crisis" are those who make a living writing schadenfreude pieces for conservative American websites. You have been misled. Besides, don't change the subject. We are talking about USA's massive failure. All three of these other nations have succeeded in dealing with this problem that has totally beaten us. Observing that they aren't sufficiently cruel to immigrants for your tastes doesn't change that fact.
HenryKissinger 6y ago
The number of foreign students is at an all-time high.
- nine_zeros 6y ago
  > The number of foreign students is at an all-time high. Don't get me wrong but do you always look at historical numbers to predict the future?
  - genericone 6y ago
    I think you are being downvoted because... well, exactly what other methods did you have in mind? Using trend data to predict future data seems pretty run-of-the-mill to me.
- wikiwawa 6y ago
  Yes, in this case, probably the peak.
- lioeters 6y ago
  According to a Forbes article: > The number of international students enrolled in U.S. universities declined again in 2018-19, extending the slide in enrolled international students to a second year in a row. > That’s one of the main takeaways from the 2019 Open Doors Report on International Educational Exchange, which was released today by the Institute of International Education (IIE) and the U.S. Department of State’s Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs. From: https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2019/11/18/international-student-enrollment-down-again-at-us-universities/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2019/11/18/inte... --- However, the linked report starts out: > The number of international students in the United States set an all-time high in the 2018/19 academic year, the fourth consecutive year with more than one million international students. > The total number of international students, 1,095,299, is a 0.05 percent increase over last year, according to the 2019 Open Doors Report on International Educational Exchange. From: https://www.iie.org/en/Why-IIE/Announcements/2019/11/Number-of-International-Students-in-the-United-States-Hits-All-Time-High https://www.iie.org/en/Why-IIE/Announcements/2019/11/Number-...
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ryanmarsh 6y ago
loud and clear that America is only as competent as its leader The courts proved exactly the opposite. The system of checks and balances worked. I don't follow your assertion.
- ptmcc 6y ago
  We've been testing these checks and balances a heck of a lot lately, and they haven't always worked. And even when they do, the fear and confusion caused in the meantime in a case like this is devastating to many thousands of people. It is not normal nor good for an administration to be floating so many terrible and illegal ideas so regularly.
- nine_zeros 6y ago
  > The courts proved exactly the opposite. The system of checks and balances worked. I don't follow your assertion. The courts worked as a balance. But they can only do as much as the laws allow. The tendency of the executive is heard loud and clear. No serious student would want to jeopardize their lives in an environment and society that displays xenophobia. I cannot explain it much better than this https://themargins.substack.com/p/the-international-student-bait-and https://themargins.substack.com/p/the-international-student-...
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    I'm not disputing that it's bad, but I'm not really convinced it's the death of American international student programs either. A student looking for a country with no xenophobia is bound to be disappointed no matter where they go. The article you referenced seems to largely agree with my perspective, noting that "there are still millions of people who’d do anything to come to this country".
- scarface74 6y ago
  Until the next judge -appointed by the President —gets to decide and rubber stamps his decision. Depending on judges with lifetime appointments isn’t a good system. Why could this decision be made in the first place by non elected officials? Why didn’t such a drastic decision have to be passed via the legislative process?
halfmatthalfcat 6y ago
This was the event that broke the camel's back? No, we've been laughed at and ridiculed for the past three years. Add this to the pile.
cwkoss 6y ago
And unfortunately it appears we will not get an opportunity to vote for a high competence leader in the November.
tanilama 6y ago
Why are you getting downvoted? Confidence is definitely a thing. Most of the students probably don't appreciate this self-inflicted drama in the first place. No one really wins here.

DoofusOfDeath 6y ago

> The noise was heard loud and clear that America is only as competent as its leader. Honest question because I'm not a student of world politics: what countries have had consistently better governance over the last 20 years? Every time some possibility comes to mind, I quickly recall a reason to cross it off the list.

jessaustin 6y ago
Off the top of my head, I think of nations who have dealt effectively with the current health challenge: New Zealand, South Korea, Germany, etc.
- burfog 6y ago
  South Korea's leader was following orders from a cult leader. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_South_Korean_political_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_South_Korean_political_sc... Germany has a huge self-inflicted migrant crisis. New Zealand seems to be heading down that path.
  - jessaustin 6y ago
    I love these wikipedia experts! Read your own link; Park is in prison. (Where the last five USA presidents should also be.) The only Germans who worry about this so-called "migrant crisis" are those who make a living writing schadenfreude pieces for conservative American websites. You have been misled. Besides, don't change the subject. We are talking about USA's massive failure. All three of these other nations have succeeded in dealing with this problem that has totally beaten us. Observing that they aren't sufficiently cruel to immigrants for your tastes doesn't change that fact.

HenryKissinger 6y ago

The number of foreign students is at an all-time high.

nine_zeros 6y ago
> The number of foreign students is at an all-time high. Don't get me wrong but do you always look at historical numbers to predict the future?
- genericone 6y ago
  I think you are being downvoted because... well, exactly what other methods did you have in mind? Using trend data to predict future data seems pretty run-of-the-mill to me.
wikiwawa 6y ago
Yes, in this case, probably the peak.
lioeters 6y ago
According to a Forbes article: > The number of international students enrolled in U.S. universities declined again in 2018-19, extending the slide in enrolled international students to a second year in a row. > That’s one of the main takeaways from the 2019 Open Doors Report on International Educational Exchange, which was released today by the Institute of International Education (IIE) and the U.S. Department of State’s Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs. From: https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2019/11/18/international-student-enrollment-down-again-at-us-universities/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2019/11/18/inte... --- However, the linked report starts out: > The number of international students in the United States set an all-time high in the 2018/19 academic year, the fourth consecutive year with more than one million international students. > The total number of international students, 1,095,299, is a 0.05 percent increase over last year, according to the 2019 Open Doors Report on International Educational Exchange. From: https://www.iie.org/en/Why-IIE/Announcements/2019/11/Number-of-International-Students-in-the-United-States-Hits-All-Time-High https://www.iie.org/en/Why-IIE/Announcements/2019/11/Number-...

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

ryanmarsh 6y ago

loud and clear that America is only as competent as its leader The courts proved exactly the opposite. The system of checks and balances worked. I don't follow your assertion.

ptmcc 6y ago
We've been testing these checks and balances a heck of a lot lately, and they haven't always worked. And even when they do, the fear and confusion caused in the meantime in a case like this is devastating to many thousands of people. It is not normal nor good for an administration to be floating so many terrible and illegal ideas so regularly.
nine_zeros 6y ago
> The courts proved exactly the opposite. The system of checks and balances worked. I don't follow your assertion. The courts worked as a balance. But they can only do as much as the laws allow. The tendency of the executive is heard loud and clear. No serious student would want to jeopardize their lives in an environment and society that displays xenophobia. I cannot explain it much better than this https://themargins.substack.com/p/the-international-student-bait-and https://themargins.substack.com/p/the-international-student-...
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  I'm not disputing that it's bad, but I'm not really convinced it's the death of American international student programs either. A student looking for a country with no xenophobia is bound to be disappointed no matter where they go. The article you referenced seems to largely agree with my perspective, noting that "there are still millions of people who’d do anything to come to this country".
scarface74 6y ago
Until the next judge -appointed by the President —gets to decide and rubber stamps his decision. Depending on judges with lifetime appointments isn’t a good system. Why could this decision be made in the first place by non elected officials? Why didn’t such a drastic decision have to be passed via the legislative process?

halfmatthalfcat 6y ago

This was the event that broke the camel's back? No, we've been laughed at and ridiculed for the past three years. Add this to the pile.

cwkoss 6y ago

And unfortunately it appears we will not get an opportunity to vote for a high competence leader in the November.

tanilama 6y ago

Why are you getting downvoted? Confidence is definitely a thing. Most of the students probably don't appreciate this self-inflicted drama in the first place. No one really wins here.