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Excellent. The system worked this time. People challenged executive branch action through the judicial system and the executive branch backed down. But this sh
by atonse 6y ago
Excellent. The system worked this time. People challenged executive branch action through the judicial system and the executive branch backed down.
But this should never have been an issue to begin with, think of all the unnecessary stress and anxiety this has caused for the hundreds of thousands of international students impacted by this.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- nine_zeros 6y ago> But this should never have been an issue to begin with, think of all the unnecessary stress and anxiety this has caused for the hundreds of thousands of international students impacted by this. More importantly, the long term damage is done. The noise was heard loud and clear that America is only as competent as its leader. Prospective future students are likely going to be ultra careful before choosing this country.
- DoofusOfDeath 6y ago> The noise was heard loud and clear that America is only as competent as its leader. Honest question because I'm not a student of world politics: what countries have had consistently better governance over the last 20 years? Every time some possibility comes to mind, I quickly recall a reason to cross it off the list.
- jessaustin 6y agoOff the top of my head, I think of nations who have dealt effectively with the current health challenge: New Zealand, South Korea, Germany, etc.
- burfog 6y agoSouth Korea's leader was following orders from a cult leader. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_South_Korean_political_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_South_Korean_political_sc... Germany has a huge self-inflicted migrant crisis. New Zealand seems to be heading down that path.
- jessaustin 6y agoI love these wikipedia experts! Read your own link; Park is in prison. (Where the last five USA presidents should also be.) The only Germans who worry about this so-called "migrant crisis" are those who make a living writing schadenfreude pieces for conservative American websites. You have been misled. Besides, don't change the subject. We are talking about USA's massive failure. All three of these other nations have succeeded in dealing with this problem that has totally beaten us. Observing that they aren't sufficiently cruel to immigrants for your tastes doesn't change that fact.
- HenryKissinger 6y agoThe number of foreign students is at an all-time high.
- nine_zeros 6y ago> The number of foreign students is at an all-time high. Don't get me wrong but do you always look at historical numbers to predict the future?
- genericone 6y agoI think you are being downvoted because... well, exactly what other methods did you have in mind? Using trend data to predict future data seems pretty run-of-the-mill to me.
- wikiwawa 6y agoYes, in this case, probably the peak.
- lioeters 6y agoAccording to a Forbes article: > The number of international students enrolled in U.S. universities declined again in 2018-19, extending the slide in enrolled international students to a second year in a row. > That’s one of the main takeaways from the 2019 Open Doors Report on International Educational Exchange, which was released today by the Institute of International Education (IIE) and the U.S. Department of State’s Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs. From: https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2019/11/18/international-student-enrollment-down-again-at-us-universities/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2019/11/18/inte... --- However, the linked report starts out: > The number of international students in the United States set an all-time high in the 2018/19 academic year, the fourth consecutive year with more than one million international students. > The total number of international students, 1,095,299, is a 0.05 percent increase over last year, according to the 2019 Open Doors Report on International Educational Exchange. From: https://www.iie.org/en/Why-IIE/Announcements/2019/11/Number-of-International-Students-in-the-United-States-Hits-All-Time-High https://www.iie.org/en/Why-IIE/Announcements/2019/11/Number-...
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- ryanmarsh 6y agoloud and clear that America is only as competent as its leader The courts proved exactly the opposite. The system of checks and balances worked. I don't follow your assertion.
- ptmcc 6y agoWe've been testing these checks and balances a heck of a lot lately, and they haven't always worked. And even when they do, the fear and confusion caused in the meantime in a case like this is devastating to many thousands of people. It is not normal nor good for an administration to be floating so many terrible and illegal ideas so regularly.
- nine_zeros 6y ago> The courts proved exactly the opposite. The system of checks and balances worked. I don't follow your assertion. The courts worked as a balance. But they can only do as much as the laws allow. The tendency of the executive is heard loud and clear. No serious student would want to jeopardize their lives in an environment and society that displays xenophobia. I cannot explain it much better than this https://themargins.substack.com/p/the-international-student-bait-and https://themargins.substack.com/p/the-international-student-...
- SpicyLemonZest 6y agoI'm not disputing that it's bad, but I'm not really convinced it's the death of American international student programs either. A student looking for a country with no xenophobia is bound to be disappointed no matter where they go. The article you referenced seems to largely agree with my perspective, noting that "there are still millions of people who’d do anything to come to this country".
- scarface74 6y agoUntil the next judge -appointed by the President —gets to decide and rubber stamps his decision. Depending on judges with lifetime appointments isn’t a good system. Why could this decision be made in the first place by non elected officials? Why didn’t such a drastic decision have to be passed via the legislative process?
- halfmatthalfcat 6y agoThis was the event that broke the camel's back? No, we've been laughed at and ridiculed for the past three years. Add this to the pile.
- cwkoss 6y agoAnd unfortunately it appears we will not get an opportunity to vote for a high competence leader in the November.
- tanilama 6y agoWhy are you getting downvoted? Confidence is definitely a thing. Most of the students probably don't appreciate this self-inflicted drama in the first place. No one really wins here.
- nonce42 6y ago>The system worked this time. I view the phrase "the system worked" as a red flag indicating that things went wrong in a way they shouldn't, not a positive thing. A successful outcome doesn't necessarily indicate things are fine. A canonical example is the Space Shuttle boosters. The O-rings were supposed to block all the hot gases, but there was some gas leakage and erosion of the O-rings. Nothing bad happened and officials said this showed there was a sufficient safety factor. In other words, the system worked. They kept launching shuttles until an O-ring eroded all the way through and Challenger blew up. They should have recognized that erosion shouldn't have happened at all; successful launches despite erosion were an indication that things were dangerously wrong, not an indication that the system was working. (I hope I haven't gone too far on a metaphorical tangent here.) Reference: Feynman's report on Challenger: https://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/missions/51-l/docs/rogers-commission/Appendix-F.txt https://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/missions/51-l/docs/roge...
- andromeduck 6y agoIt's called defense in depth. Not everything has to be all over nothing.
- dcow 6y agoI think in this case, however, the system also worked as designed. O-rings aren’t designed to erode. The government, on the other hand, has designed power checks to prevent exactly what happened: a well meaning but ultimately idiotic decision from adversely impacting peoples’ lives in ways that weren’t initially accounted for. In no way am I giving credit to anyone here, just pointing out that the analogy doesn't quite hold.
- toby 6y ago"well-meaning"? Are we still talking about the international student deportation order?
- gen220 6y agoIf I remember correctly, the problem was that O-rings were designed to not erode at particular humidities and temperatures, which were subtly but critically different from the launch conditions. This was actually observed by engineers at the time, who tried (unsuccessfully) to raise the observation to their superiors. The launch went on anyway, and the rest is history. This has more details, along with my cousin comment: https://people.rit.edu/wlrgsh/FINRobison.pdf https://people.rit.edu/wlrgsh/FINRobison.pdf
- baron_harkonnen 6y agoI think it's more a case of the Trump administration momentarily forgetting the Harvard is basically a hedge fund that runs a college and that their revenue stream is not to be messed with. If they added a clause that the rule only applied to colleges with an endowment of less than $1 billion it would continue along just fine.
- psychometry 6y agoActually, in the case of Harvard it affected far more PhD students than tuition-paying undergrads. Also, dozens of universities, cities, and states signed on to this lawsuit. It has little to do with Harvard's bottom-line.
- jessaustin 6y agoHarvard's endowment was not built from undergraduate tuition. 20% of undergrads don't pay tuition, and half pay reduced tuition, anyway. [0] You're correct, though, that Harvard's actions in this situation have nothing to do with a "revenue stream". Occasionally Harvard does the right thing, simply because it's the right thing to do. [0] https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid
- protastus 6y agoThe backup worked this time. This is akin to a safety system taking over and restoring stability, despite a major component failure. From the outside, things "worked" but backups are designed for extraordinary and rare circumstances, not for continuous use.
- avs733 6y agogovernment by normalization of deviance?
- kabdib 6y agoOr a safety system, like an airbag. Not something you want to be triggering as a matter of course or to be proud of having done so, ever.
- netsharc 6y agoYeah I prefer the airbag analogy. "Well, the driver was drunk, we couldn't get him to stop despite our attempts, he drove us into a ditch, but the airbags worked!"
- hongloumeng 6y agoI guess. But we've ramped up uncertainty, people are afraid, and people who have been considering coming to the US will now go elsewhere.