13 ms·

It's strange how much people will bend over backwards to give Musk the benefit of doubt when he openly lies about such things

by typon 6y ago

ardit33 6y ago
While he has achieved a lot, His claims sometimes are downright bizarre... I don't know if it is just intentional deception, drugs, or some kind of bi-polar mania, or a combination of all the above. We should be able to make our Teslas to be fully automated robo-taxis by now... and earn cash on the side.... https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-robo-taxis-elon-musk-pt-barnum-circus-2019-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-robo-taxis-elon-musk-p... I wouldn't trust my family's life, on his (often) delusional claims.
- ianmobbs 6y ago
  Most of the achievements people ascribe to him aren't even his. Musk bought the company then gave himself the title of 'founder'. He's a businessman, not a scientist
  - singlow 6y ago
    What did the company have when he bought it apart from a name?
    - ianmobbs 6y ago
      They already had the Roadster, Musk just funded it.
      - singlow 6y ago
        In what way did they "have the Roadster" in February 2004, 6 months after the first two founders started the company and 9 months before it was named Tesla? At the point that Musk joined they were still working with a TZero converted to a lithium battery pack.
  - drcross 6y ago
    >He's a businessman, not a scientist How can you even say that? I've heard more scientific discussions out of him compared to all the other CEO's I've ever heard speak combined. Musk has a head for physics and numbers and can easily come up with calculations for classical mechanics, material technology, information theory off the top of your head. For you to say the contrary is doublespeak.
    - kmonsen 6y ago
      The poster you commented said a true fact (Elon bought a company and calls himself founder). There is no facts across your rambling response, and you say others do doublespeak?
      - drcross 6y ago
        It seems I have to repeat myself here. >He's a businessman, not a scientist This is the point that my comment refuted.
    - ianmobbs 6y ago
      Because there's a difference between having "a head for physics and numbers" and "working with physics and numbers for your career". Fundamentally, he is a CEO, who's job is not to work on any of the underlying technology. His job grow the company.
  - dahfizz 6y ago
    That's a bit misleading. Musk was a part of Tesla from day 1 and provided most of the funding. He served as Chairman since 2004. When he took over in 2008, Tesla had just started producing the first roadster, which was really just a conversion kit for a lotus. After musk became CEO, Tesla became the world's most valuable car company...
    - ianmobbs 6y ago
      There is a difference between "funding a Roadster" and "designing and fully understanding the physics and mechanics of the Roadster".
      - dahfizz 6y ago
        > designing and fully understanding the physics and mechanics of the Roadster. I've never seen anyone claim Musk did that. What are you on about?
        catalogia 6y ago
        From the context of your comment, it seemed as though you meant to support the notion that Elon Musk was working as a scientist, not a businessman.
        dahfizz 6y ago
        That's fair. I should have quoted the first two sentences of my parent explicitly: > Most of the achievements people ascribe to him aren't even his. Musk bought the company then gave himself the title of 'founder
Analemma_ 6y ago
It's a personality cult at this point; they will never even entertain the idea that the glorious leader can err, or that if he does, it's for our own good.
nemothekid 6y ago
Tesla is one part car company, one part battery company, and 5 parts marketing hype. The only reason people are seriously contemplating buying full electric cars today instead of the bullshit BMW produced is because Iron Man convinced enough people that electric cars will simultaneously fly to mars and cure world hunger. The stock reflects this. In other words, there is no Tesla without Elon's meme machine. The graveyard of failed EV startups was chockful of more well meaning participants before Tesla came along. I'd go as far as to argue that the Elon's bullshit was the only thing that could stand up to big oil.
- typon 6y ago
  Are you saying people see Musk as a necessary "evil" to fight off a bigger evil (in the form of oil companies) and so they forgive his misgivings in a sort of utilitarian calculus?
  - nemothekid 6y ago
    No. I'm saying Tesla is successful because of Elon's hype. They are not "forgiving" his misgivings, they fully believe Elon will solve world hunger and invent FTL space travel. If you ask anyone who's bought into Tesla, they will tell you the "Auto Pilot on airplanes" lie, but they also believe Elon will deliver on Level 5 Autonomous driving. No cares about electric cars, they care about the guy's company who is using electric cars as a platform to save the world.
    - vvanders 6y ago
      Remove autopilot from a Model S and it's still a hell of a car. Just from a pure driving dynamics a mechanical engine can't touch a VFD in terms of power dynamics and range(which is also why Diesel-Electric locomotives use them). Don't disagree on the autopilot, the killer app has always been for me stop-and-go traffic where the speeds are lower and the sensors need to do less vision and more radar based.
      - karolist 6y ago
natch 6y ago
Some of us have explained many times how his quotes get taken out of context and twisted into being “promises” and “lies” but the haters have the upper hand at the moment. Believe what you want to but at least look at his statements yourself, with care, and in context, and notice when he prefaces things with “I think” and “I believe” etc. The bending over backwards is being done by the haters, not by his supporters. If anything his supporters are pretty quiet and just vote with their money.
on_and_off 6y ago
There is a weird personality cult around somebody who is basically the Trump of tech.
- jacquesm 6y ago
  Not a Musk fan by any stretch but that's unfair to Musk. He does deliver, albeit too late and overhyped. He also has a tendency to shoot his mouth off and doesn't know how to deal with dissent. But Trump is an outright fraud and that's several levels removed from where Musk sits, arguably Musk has done more in two decades than Trump has managed to achieve in his entire life.
  - on_and_off 6y ago
    likes to rewrite history and ignores facts he doesn't like, bullies people that oppose him, goes on unstable twitter rants, builds a cult of personality around his persona, paints himself as a rule breaker, etc They are not the same person by any means, but they do share similarities

It's strange how much people will bend over backwards to give Musk the benefit of doubt when he openly lies about such things

by typon 6y ago

It's strange how much people will bend over backwards to give Musk the benefit of doubt when he openly lies about such things

ardit33 6y ago

While he has achieved a lot, His claims sometimes are downright bizarre... I don't know if it is just intentional deception, drugs, or some kind of bi-polar mania, or a combination of all the above. We should be able to make our Teslas to be fully automated robo-taxis by now... and earn cash on the side.... https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-robo-taxis-elon-musk-pt-barnum-circus-2019-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-robo-taxis-elon-musk-p... I wouldn't trust my family's life, on his (often) delusional claims.

ianmobbs 6y ago
Most of the achievements people ascribe to him aren't even his. Musk bought the company then gave himself the title of 'founder'. He's a businessman, not a scientist
- singlow 6y ago
  What did the company have when he bought it apart from a name?
  - ianmobbs 6y ago
    They already had the Roadster, Musk just funded it.
    - singlow 6y ago
      In what way did they "have the Roadster" in February 2004, 6 months after the first two founders started the company and 9 months before it was named Tesla? At the point that Musk joined they were still working with a TZero converted to a lithium battery pack.
- drcross 6y ago
  >He's a businessman, not a scientist How can you even say that? I've heard more scientific discussions out of him compared to all the other CEO's I've ever heard speak combined. Musk has a head for physics and numbers and can easily come up with calculations for classical mechanics, material technology, information theory off the top of your head. For you to say the contrary is doublespeak.
  - kmonsen 6y ago
    The poster you commented said a true fact (Elon bought a company and calls himself founder). There is no facts across your rambling response, and you say others do doublespeak?
    - drcross 6y ago
      It seems I have to repeat myself here. >He's a businessman, not a scientist This is the point that my comment refuted.
  - ianmobbs 6y ago
    Because there's a difference between having "a head for physics and numbers" and "working with physics and numbers for your career". Fundamentally, he is a CEO, who's job is not to work on any of the underlying technology. His job grow the company.
- dahfizz 6y ago
  That's a bit misleading. Musk was a part of Tesla from day 1 and provided most of the funding. He served as Chairman since 2004. When he took over in 2008, Tesla had just started producing the first roadster, which was really just a conversion kit for a lotus. After musk became CEO, Tesla became the world's most valuable car company...
  - ianmobbs 6y ago
    There is a difference between "funding a Roadster" and "designing and fully understanding the physics and mechanics of the Roadster".
    - dahfizz 6y ago
      > designing and fully understanding the physics and mechanics of the Roadster. I've never seen anyone claim Musk did that. What are you on about?
      - catalogia 6y ago
        From the context of your comment, it seemed as though you meant to support the notion that Elon Musk was working as a scientist, not a businessman.
        dahfizz 6y ago
        That's fair. I should have quoted the first two sentences of my parent explicitly: > Most of the achievements people ascribe to him aren't even his. Musk bought the company then gave himself the title of 'founder

Analemma_ 6y ago

It's a personality cult at this point; they will never even entertain the idea that the glorious leader can err, or that if he does, it's for our own good.

nemothekid 6y ago

Tesla is one part car company, one part battery company, and 5 parts marketing hype. The only reason people are seriously contemplating buying full electric cars today instead of the bullshit BMW produced is because Iron Man convinced enough people that electric cars will simultaneously fly to mars and cure world hunger. The stock reflects this. In other words, there is no Tesla without Elon's meme machine. The graveyard of failed EV startups was chockful of more well meaning participants before Tesla came along. I'd go as far as to argue that the Elon's bullshit was the only thing that could stand up to big oil.

typon 6y ago
Are you saying people see Musk as a necessary "evil" to fight off a bigger evil (in the form of oil companies) and so they forgive his misgivings in a sort of utilitarian calculus?
- nemothekid 6y ago
  No. I'm saying Tesla is successful because of Elon's hype. They are not "forgiving" his misgivings, they fully believe Elon will solve world hunger and invent FTL space travel. If you ask anyone who's bought into Tesla, they will tell you the "Auto Pilot on airplanes" lie, but they also believe Elon will deliver on Level 5 Autonomous driving. No cares about electric cars, they care about the guy's company who is using electric cars as a platform to save the world.
  - vvanders 6y ago
    Remove autopilot from a Model S and it's still a hell of a car. Just from a pure driving dynamics a mechanical engine can't touch a VFD in terms of power dynamics and range(which is also why Diesel-Electric locomotives use them). Don't disagree on the autopilot, the killer app has always been for me stop-and-go traffic where the speeds are lower and the sensors need to do less vision and more radar based.
    - karolist 6y ago

natch 6y ago

Some of us have explained many times how his quotes get taken out of context and twisted into being “promises” and “lies” but the haters have the upper hand at the moment. Believe what you want to but at least look at his statements yourself, with care, and in context, and notice when he prefaces things with “I think” and “I believe” etc. The bending over backwards is being done by the haters, not by his supporters. If anything his supporters are pretty quiet and just vote with their money.

on_and_off 6y ago

There is a weird personality cult around somebody who is basically the Trump of tech.

jacquesm 6y ago
Not a Musk fan by any stretch but that's unfair to Musk. He does deliver, albeit too late and overhyped. He also has a tendency to shoot his mouth off and doesn't know how to deal with dissent. But Trump is an outright fraud and that's several levels removed from where Musk sits, arguably Musk has done more in two decades than Trump has managed to achieve in his entire life.
- on_and_off 6y ago
  likes to rewrite history and ignores facts he doesn't like, bullies people that oppose him, goes on unstable twitter rants, builds a cult of personality around his persona, paints himself as a rule breaker, etc They are not the same person by any means, but they do share similarities