5 ms·

That this is true at what is supposed to be a reputable publication like The New York Times makes me worried for companies and less known publications. Because

That this is true at what is supposed to be a reputable publication like The New York Times makes me worried for companies and less known publications. Because if it's happening at the elite end of what is supposed to be curiosity-driven investigation, why wouldn't it be happening elsewhere? And so you end up with a culture where you can't speak about anything, where challenging the orthodoxy means you'll be forced into poverty. Where you don't even know WHAT the orthodoxy is at times because the orthodox eat their own and constantly shift goalposts. People everywhere need to stand up and issue a firm rebuke to anyone contributing to the toxic environments she described. Either by voting with your wallet, or by being bold and speaking against it in your social circles. It's not too late to turn the ship around.

deleuze 6y ago
Bari Weiss is responsible for toxic culture in the first place. She's an absolute hypocrite here, so whatever conversation you want to have about speech, it probably shouldn't happen in this context.
- ncr100 6y ago
  Where is the cultural critique of Weiss coming from? Is it this contribution, on the Joe Rogan podcast? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo3GM760a2s&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo3GM760a2s&feature=youtu.be - 11m, 2019 - Weiss talks about Tulsi Gabbard (?) as a sycophant. (YT person asserts dishonesty and hypocrisy.)
abnercoimbre 6y ago
To add to this, the author gives Twitter a lot of weight as the culpable factor. So many important people by now see the birdsite as a genuine net-negative yet it keeps chirping along with no changes. A bit baffling.
- LegitShady 6y ago
  The journalists are heavily involved in twitter controversies and end up smelling their own farts a bit too much, and suddenly twitter nonsense shows up as news.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
hangonhn 6y ago
Wait. We're only hearing it from one point of view. Rather than calling for action, should we not also hear other view points or do some investigation or research first? Isn't knee-jerk calls to action contributing to what you seen to fear?
- banads 6y ago
  Maybe if there weren't already countless other supporting, self-evident examples in recent history
qntty 6y ago
You don't have to believe in a naive worldview where the NYT supposedly used to be a principled newspaper in order to want people to behave more decently toward one another. There's always been things you can't say at the NYT. The new orthodoxy just represents a changing of the guard. America never was the place we tell ourselves that it was. Ask a socialist in the 50's about our noble tradition of free speech. We should fight to make our world the ideal that it never was, but that doesn't mean we have to buy old lies about who we used to be.
TeaDrunk 6y ago
Bari Weiss is bringing politics into her behavior- she was tweeting insults about her own co workers during a meeting about the journalistic direction of the company she is participating in the journalistic direction of. If this came from anyone else she'd be fired immediately.
- areeh 6y ago
  I've seen this comment a few times, but I haven't seen a source yet. Can you provide one?
  - danhor 6y ago
    I'm guessing this is referring to https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/1268628680797978625 https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/1268628680797978625: The New Guard has a different worldview, one articulated best by @JonHaidt and @glukianoff. They call it "safetyism," in which the right of people to feel emotionally and psychologically safe trumps what were previously considered core liberal values, like free speech.
    - areeh 6y ago
      Thanks! If this is what was referred to, linking the tweets adds a lot of information compared to just the comment I replied to on its own.
    - TeaDrunk 6y ago
      She tweeted this during an all hands meeting. It’s incredibly inappropriate and has nothing to do with free speech.
amerine 6y ago
I’m not a journalist, never have been. But I did grow up loving the news and ended up in the leadership team of a small newspaper publishing company in Oregon and Northern Cali for a period of years. I left the entire industry after my time working in that leadership group. As far as I can tell all news organizations today are chasing money and tribes over objective facts and truth. It concerned me 10 years ago, and I can only imagine it’s gotten worse.

deleuze 6y ago

Bari Weiss is responsible for toxic culture in the first place. She's an absolute hypocrite here, so whatever conversation you want to have about speech, it probably shouldn't happen in this context.

ncr100 6y ago
Where is the cultural critique of Weiss coming from? Is it this contribution, on the Joe Rogan podcast? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo3GM760a2s&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo3GM760a2s&feature=youtu.be - 11m, 2019 - Weiss talks about Tulsi Gabbard (?) as a sycophant. (YT person asserts dishonesty and hypocrisy.)

abnercoimbre 6y ago

To add to this, the author gives Twitter a lot of weight as the culpable factor. So many important people by now see the birdsite as a genuine net-negative yet it keeps chirping along with no changes. A bit baffling.

LegitShady 6y ago
The journalists are heavily involved in twitter controversies and end up smelling their own farts a bit too much, and suddenly twitter nonsense shows up as news.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

hangonhn 6y ago

Wait. We're only hearing it from one point of view. Rather than calling for action, should we not also hear other view points or do some investigation or research first? Isn't knee-jerk calls to action contributing to what you seen to fear?

banads 6y ago
Maybe if there weren't already countless other supporting, self-evident examples in recent history

qntty 6y ago

You don't have to believe in a naive worldview where the NYT supposedly used to be a principled newspaper in order to want people to behave more decently toward one another. There's always been things you can't say at the NYT. The new orthodoxy just represents a changing of the guard. America never was the place we tell ourselves that it was. Ask a socialist in the 50's about our noble tradition of free speech. We should fight to make our world the ideal that it never was, but that doesn't mean we have to buy old lies about who we used to be.

TeaDrunk 6y ago

Bari Weiss is bringing politics into her behavior- she was tweeting insults about her own co workers during a meeting about the journalistic direction of the company she is participating in the journalistic direction of. If this came from anyone else she'd be fired immediately.

areeh 6y ago
I've seen this comment a few times, but I haven't seen a source yet. Can you provide one?
- danhor 6y ago
  I'm guessing this is referring to https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/1268628680797978625 https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/1268628680797978625: The New Guard has a different worldview, one articulated best by @JonHaidt and @glukianoff. They call it "safetyism," in which the right of people to feel emotionally and psychologically safe trumps what were previously considered core liberal values, like free speech.
  - areeh 6y ago
    Thanks! If this is what was referred to, linking the tweets adds a lot of information compared to just the comment I replied to on its own.
  - TeaDrunk 6y ago
    She tweeted this during an all hands meeting. It’s incredibly inappropriate and has nothing to do with free speech.

amerine 6y ago

I’m not a journalist, never have been. But I did grow up loving the news and ended up in the leadership team of a small newspaper publishing company in Oregon and Northern Cali for a period of years. I left the entire industry after my time working in that leadership group. As far as I can tell all news organizations today are chasing money and tribes over objective facts and truth. It concerned me 10 years ago, and I can only imagine it’s gotten worse.