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Something about Tiktok, whether the algorithm or the sheer volume of content, seems to discourage the sort of look-at-me envy-bait narcissistic posturing that i
by analyte123 6y ago
Something about Tiktok, whether the algorithm or the sheer volume of content, seems to discourage the sort of look-at-me envy-bait narcissistic posturing that is so common on Instagram. To be popular on Tiktok you actually have to do stuff (even it's fairly banal like dancing or telling stories), not just be (or pretend to be) someone.
I found it funny that the author of this post is trying to defend liberal values like the free flow of information on the internet by...making Apple and Google remove Tiktok from people's phones. He's correct that the primary political risk of Tiktok is the recommendation algorithm being manipulated. However, American tech companies manipulate their recommendation algorithms for political reasons (in the loose sense of the word political) all the time and I'm sure not everyone in the world likes that either.
This would have been a good chance to really defend free flow of information on the internet, open and swappable recommendation algorithms, personal data ownership, and so on, but the conclusion is basically "it's bad because a China-affiliated company does it". Generally, everything that Tiktok does that is wrong is also wrong when Facebook does it. The reality is that Tiktok is (for now) a superior product in many ways to anything from American tech companies. Why is this?
- exanimo_sai 6y agoI think it has a lot to do with how TikTok manages the balance between consumption and creation. Only a fraction of viewers on YouTube for example create content where a significant portion (55%) on TikTok both create AND Consume. This was an analysis on TikTok vs YouTube and focuses on how TikTok leverages mimcry to overcome the initial burden of ideation and yields significant content creation for its platform. "On Youtube, 79% of views accrue to only 10% of its creators. While on TikTok 55% of viewers also create videos. " https://4thquadrant.io/freearticles/business-models/tiktok-and-the-creation-consumption-balance/ https://4thquadrant.io/freearticles/business-models/tiktok-a...
- mochialex 6y agoNope Tiktok and Facebook are not even comparable. Using Facebook means you will see ads targeting you. Using Tiktok means you are helping China silence millions of camped Uyghurs. You are helping China make the world a better place for Totalitarianism. Totally different levels of evil
- jes5199 6y agoin that case, using Facebook means you’re helping perpetuate white supremacy through the mass incarceration of Black Americans
- dna_polymerase 6y agoYes, and using Instagram supports the droning of hundreds of people every year based on meta-data.
- magnio 6y agoHow exactly does using TikTok help China silence millions of camped Uyghurs? If we all switched to Facebook would their voices be heard?
- mochialex 6y agoDo you agree that all Chinese companies (even foreign ones operating in China), state owned or not, has to do whatever CCP wants? If you do, you already have the answer. If you don't, I suggest you get to know a bit more about China before CCP's alternative facts become the facts.
- dang 6y agoPlease don't use HN for nationalistic flamewar. It's against the site rules and we ban accounts that are used primarily for this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- xpaqui 6y agoThis is a good one.
- Johnjonjoan 6y agoNo. However you would probably still be able to talk about them on your social media in five years. I'm genuinely curious if posts relating to China's treatment of Uyghurs are already meeting censors on tik tok.
- 121789 6y agoit's a "superior" product because it's new and not yet commercialized. once it is, you'll get the same sort of gaming (influencer culture, ad placement, etc) that you see in every other social media
- TruthSHIFT 6y agoHow is the product not commercialized? Tik Tok has ads and influencers.
- ubermon 6y agohaha very possible, but it is still quite shocking to me that my mom, who is almost 60, keep telling me how fun it is...
- magicnubs 6y ago> Something about Tiktok, whether the algorithm or the sheer volume of content, seems to discourage the sort of look-at-me envy-bait narcissistic posturing that is so common on Instagram. I haven't used Tiktok, but from what I understand you can only post videos taken using the phone's camera and they can only be edited using whatever filters are available within the app, effectively limiting how manipulated or manufactured the content can be. Sort of like a Snapchat for videos (with the caveat that you can save and post videos at a later time in Tiktok, whereas with Snapchat it's "now or never"). Coupled with not having an associated text component where you can easily post testimonials and links to a site where you're selling a self help book, get rich quick scheme, juice cleanse or gym routine, it should limit how easy it is to use it as a promotion platform.
- hoytschermerhrn 6y agoFYI it is possible to upload a video edited in a 3rd-party app (i.e After Effects) in lieu of using the tools available within TikTok itself.
- sharadov 6y agoMy naive question is how is Tiktok bad and all other American social media platforms - FB/Insta/Snap good?
- tguedes 6y agoDid you read the article?
- chvid 6y agoIt is bad because it is Chinese.
- gpanders 6y agoThis question is explored in-depth in the article.
- orangse 6y agoMy theoretical answer would be that we can regulate American companies more effectively and have them be held accountable, like when Zuckerberg had to go before Congress. I doubt you'd be able to get the CEO of a large Chinese company to do that. In reality we don't regulate them nearly as much as we can, so the end result is that FB and Tiktok both invade your privacy.
- esperent 6y agoAs a non-American looking on, it seems to me like the US government has failed spectacularly at any kind of regulation, and to the contrary is often actively trying to undermine privacy laws. Zuckerberg in front of congress achieved exactly zero, except provide footage for loads of memes of Zuckerberg as a lizard. I prefer the idea of a US based social media company to a Chinese one. But only slightly. I would much rather the company be based somewhere with genuine intent to create consumer safety and privacy focused laws.
- aledalgrande 6y ago> TikTok and Douyin's servers are each based in the market where the respective app is available. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TikTok https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TikTok
- dirtyid 6y ago>Why is this? I replied to the parent comment by accident, but: That's the kind of content that survives the crucibles of Chinese censorship, "Creative and Joyful" opiate for the masses. This is an often overlooked aspect of Chinese social media / content filtering philosophy that has coalesced over time - block out the bad and divisive while elevating mundane joys. It's how the 50c operates, it floods the airwaves with small happy platitudes and avoids debates because engaging and challenging controversial topics (especially politics) is how toxicity is produced. It's counterproductive to even try. It's why TikTok's content policy is designed to protect the status quo, often misinterpreted as being pro-Beijing when it's broadly pro-establishment. The last thing Chinese social media platforms is designed to do is to start revolutions, encourage radicalization or sectarianism among impressionable audiences, things western social media platforms are dealing with now, and why they were blocked in China in the first place. That said, I guess it's possible for TikTok to be weaponized to sow division, but why would they need to when the whole of western media sphere is doing so already. IMO the style has it's place, whole of China has no choice but to live under it, but in the west, a plurality of content management philosophies calibrated for different audiences is good. There's lessons in managing toxicity to learn from TikTok even if it gets banned.
- dzhiurgis 6y agoI see plenty conspiracy theories, pseudoscience and quack medicine on TikTok. Way way way more than on other platforms. Less of traditional politics, blm and similar stuff tho.
- analyte123 6y agoThis is a good point, although I suspect most people don't really want to see the toxicity. People are always complaining that they can't make certain things go away on Facebook even though they're constantly telling it "I don't want this". The one time I can remember where someone got "cancelled" on Tiktok, most of the criticism was carried out on other platforms like Twitter and Youtube ("Nurse Holly" if you're curious). I'd try to see how well Tiktok's recommendations can identify "toxic sectarian flame wars", but I don't want to clutter up my feed (which is 90% not in English anyway).
- billjings 6y ago"I found it funny that the author of this post is trying to defend liberal values like the free flow of information on the internet by...making Apple and Google remove Tiktok from people's phones." This is what the posted article is about. I cannot write a rebuttal to this that is better than what Ben Thompson wrote, and I won't. The section "A Reluctant Prescription" section is directly about this. I can rebut this, however: "However, American tech companies manipulate their recommendation algorithms for political reasons (in the loose sense of the word political) all the time and I'm sure not everyone in the world likes that either." They don't do it in China.
- streb-lo 6y agoI find it very hard to believe they don't promote content intended to elicit an emotional response to drive engagement in China the same way they do everywhere else.