5 ms·

The China-US tensions are not going to get better, and, in fact, will get worse as years go by. More and more nations will be forced to choose sides. It's not g

The China-US tensions are not going to get better, and, in fact, will get worse as years go by. More and more nations will be forced to choose sides. It's not good and I'm not sure what a resolution even looks like.

flattone 6y ago
My 'being honest with ourselves' view is we know whats going to happen and its going to suck.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
mytailorisrich 6y ago
The alternative to Huawei in 5G is either Nokia or Ericsson. As an European I don't what to think that the US seems so against kit from a Chinese company and completely fine with kit from an European company. They should be worried about both. We also have a long term world domination plan (version 2.0)... ;)
- ceilingcorner 6y ago
  Maybe the fact that one is a totalitarian state and the other is an ally?
  - orwin 6y ago
    But for at least Portugal and Greece, and maybe Italy and some eastern European countries, the ally is china since 2014? While Obama made his move over SE Asia, the CCP applied the strategy they used in Australia with the PIGS. And while Trump very successfully destroyed what Obama tried to do in SE Asia, the CCP installed foreign military bases near center of trade in the Indian ocean while gaining political goodwill with middle east poorest countries. Most of Iraki oil is sold to China. I'm not claiming i know what should be done, i'm just saying that China have already a lot of political allies and try to gain more, and now reached europe.
    - jaekash 6y ago
      > But for at least Portugal and Greece, and maybe Italy and some eastern European countries, the ally is china since 2014? Maybe financially, but not ideologically. Not sure how far this "allegiance will hold".
- culturestate 6y ago
  > As an European I don't what to think that the US seems so against kit from a Chinese company and completely fine with jit from an European company. The US would of course prefer that American technology be available, but since it's not then I suppose a partnership with two trusted allies is preferable to one with an untrusted adversary. Nokia and Ericsson also aren't arms of the state widely believed (fairly or not) to actively facilitate global industrial and military espionage activities on behalf of a hostile government, so there's that.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- jaekash 6y ago
  The only way this makes sense is abstract of any value judgements, and yes sure, if we in the west ignore that everything about the Chinese Communist Party and how it conducts itself is an affront to our values then it makes no difference. But we are humans, we have values, we make value judgements.
strogonoff 6y ago
Perhaps having to take a side in this is not necessarily a negative? Better sooner rather than later.
- hrktb 6y ago
  From a EU/UK perspective there’s no good coming from it. It’s like being caught in a fight between your drunk uncle and your berserk cousin.
  - mytailorisrich 6y ago
    There is definitely good coming out of it for the EU. Europe does not have to align with either side. It is a superpower in its own right if it gets its shit together (one can dream).
    - hrktb 6y ago
      This is not some neutral decision, but a move forced by the fallout of US sanctions, that the UK can’t do anything about. They’re giving up a partnership they entered after independently reviewing the equipment, I can’t see how it is a good outcome for them.
      - mytailorisrich 6y ago
        The UK left the EU so now it has no option but to be a big guy's bitch because it is too weak to face them by itself, and it has always been quite obvious that it would be a satellite of the US. This is not the same situation for the EU.
        hrktb 6y ago
        The EU by design is not a single unit with governing power that would counteract the US or China. It’s not a federation but a union, each member has to manage their own international relations. France for instance is about to take the same steps as UK, and get out of Huawei deals within the next years.
est31 6y ago
A resolution is difficult. China is a totalitarian country and totalitarianism needs to be fought, but I doubt that a democratic China would be any different when it comes to their claims to the world. They'd want to expand just as they want to expand now. Just look at the various western colonial empires of history. Many of them were democracies in some form or fashion. Any long term resolution to the conflict has to involve the realization that China has had 100 bad years and now has a giant comeback. And that the US has had 60 good years but now large parts of it decline.
- magicsmoke 6y ago
  Maybe the long term resolution involves recognizing that even if China is totalitarian, it's only within it's own borders. Unlike the cold war days, there's no race to convert countries to Communism or Democracy. China's main mode of interaction with other countries is through trade, it doesn't play the game of political/ideological proselytism. If democracy loses ground around the world, that's due more to it's own failings than a concerted push by China to replace it with totalitarianism. Spend more time and funds fixing the economic inequalities plaguing democratic society than wasting it on ineffective bogeymen like confronting China half a world away.
  - jaekash 6y ago
    > Maybe the long term resolution involves recognizing that even if China is totalitarian, it's only within it's own borders. If it was not for china North Korea and possibly Pakistan would not have had nuclear weapons now. So no, it is not just in it's own borders.
    - franklampard 6y ago
      Source?
- chosenbreed37 6y ago
  > A resolution is difficult. China is a totalitarian country and totalitarianism needs to be fought, but I doubt that a democratic China would be any different when it comes to their claims to the world. I wonder about this. Why does totalitarianism in a sovereign nation need to be fought? For those of us considering a democratic China...why do we think the country would fare better as a democracy? The Chinese civilisation is goes back thousands of years. Could the system they have now be the cumulative effect of all they have gone through to date? In other words it has evolved and generally serves its people. It may evolve into something else (possibly resembling Western democracies) but it may not. I don't particularly think it has to.
room271 6y ago
I'm not sure it's just a China-US thing. I think Europe will increasingly find itself taking a role. India too. To clarify, while US-China superficially seem like the 'sides'. Really, what I think is happening is that the values of many (especially Western) countries around human rights, democracy, freedom of religion and expression, are coming into conflict with a new kind of Chinese authoritarianism that really doesn't care for these things and is quite willing to subjugate large groups of people in doing so (Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong, claims to Taiwan, etc.).
- 3PercentMan 6y ago
  Enough of your nonsense. You don't have the higher moral grounds when it comes to human rights. How many Muslims have been killed during the wars in the middle east? Stop smoking crack already and getting high on koolaid.
  - Waterfall 6y ago
    1RMB has been deposited into your bank account
    - dang 6y ago
      Please don't do this here.
  - kwistzhaderach 6y ago
    What makes you think he’s American?
  - dang 6y ago
    Hey, please don't break the site guidelines like this. We ban account that do that. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and sticking to the rules when posting here, we'd be grateful.
- Wohlf 6y ago
  The annexation of Tibet was in 1951, claims to Taiwan have always been there, and the subjugation of millions is nothing new (Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution were in the 50s and 60s). I think people are just waking up to the reality that the opening of China will not automatically lead to greater liberalism as was predicted.

flattone 6y ago

My 'being honest with ourselves' view is we know whats going to happen and its going to suck.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

mytailorisrich 6y ago

The alternative to Huawei in 5G is either Nokia or Ericsson. As an European I don't what to think that the US seems so against kit from a Chinese company and completely fine with kit from an European company. They should be worried about both. We also have a long term world domination plan (version 2.0)... ;)

ceilingcorner 6y ago
Maybe the fact that one is a totalitarian state and the other is an ally?
- orwin 6y ago
  But for at least Portugal and Greece, and maybe Italy and some eastern European countries, the ally is china since 2014? While Obama made his move over SE Asia, the CCP applied the strategy they used in Australia with the PIGS. And while Trump very successfully destroyed what Obama tried to do in SE Asia, the CCP installed foreign military bases near center of trade in the Indian ocean while gaining political goodwill with middle east poorest countries. Most of Iraki oil is sold to China. I'm not claiming i know what should be done, i'm just saying that China have already a lot of political allies and try to gain more, and now reached europe.
  - jaekash 6y ago
    > But for at least Portugal and Greece, and maybe Italy and some eastern European countries, the ally is china since 2014? Maybe financially, but not ideologically. Not sure how far this "allegiance will hold".
culturestate 6y ago
> As an European I don't what to think that the US seems so against kit from a Chinese company and completely fine with jit from an European company. The US would of course prefer that American technology be available, but since it's not then I suppose a partnership with two trusted allies is preferable to one with an untrusted adversary. Nokia and Ericsson also aren't arms of the state widely believed (fairly or not) to actively facilitate global industrial and military espionage activities on behalf of a hostile government, so there's that.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
jaekash 6y ago
The only way this makes sense is abstract of any value judgements, and yes sure, if we in the west ignore that everything about the Chinese Communist Party and how it conducts itself is an affront to our values then it makes no difference. But we are humans, we have values, we make value judgements.

strogonoff 6y ago

Perhaps having to take a side in this is not necessarily a negative? Better sooner rather than later.

hrktb 6y ago
From a EU/UK perspective there’s no good coming from it. It’s like being caught in a fight between your drunk uncle and your berserk cousin.
- mytailorisrich 6y ago
  There is definitely good coming out of it for the EU. Europe does not have to align with either side. It is a superpower in its own right if it gets its shit together (one can dream).
  - hrktb 6y ago
    This is not some neutral decision, but a move forced by the fallout of US sanctions, that the UK can’t do anything about. They’re giving up a partnership they entered after independently reviewing the equipment, I can’t see how it is a good outcome for them.
    - mytailorisrich 6y ago
      The UK left the EU so now it has no option but to be a big guy's bitch because it is too weak to face them by itself, and it has always been quite obvious that it would be a satellite of the US. This is not the same situation for the EU.
      - hrktb 6y ago
        The EU by design is not a single unit with governing power that would counteract the US or China. It’s not a federation but a union, each member has to manage their own international relations. France for instance is about to take the same steps as UK, and get out of Huawei deals within the next years.

est31 6y ago

A resolution is difficult. China is a totalitarian country and totalitarianism needs to be fought, but I doubt that a democratic China would be any different when it comes to their claims to the world. They'd want to expand just as they want to expand now. Just look at the various western colonial empires of history. Many of them were democracies in some form or fashion. Any long term resolution to the conflict has to involve the realization that China has had 100 bad years and now has a giant comeback. And that the US has had 60 good years but now large parts of it decline.

magicsmoke 6y ago
Maybe the long term resolution involves recognizing that even if China is totalitarian, it's only within it's own borders. Unlike the cold war days, there's no race to convert countries to Communism or Democracy. China's main mode of interaction with other countries is through trade, it doesn't play the game of political/ideological proselytism. If democracy loses ground around the world, that's due more to it's own failings than a concerted push by China to replace it with totalitarianism. Spend more time and funds fixing the economic inequalities plaguing democratic society than wasting it on ineffective bogeymen like confronting China half a world away.
- jaekash 6y ago
  > Maybe the long term resolution involves recognizing that even if China is totalitarian, it's only within it's own borders. If it was not for china North Korea and possibly Pakistan would not have had nuclear weapons now. So no, it is not just in it's own borders.
  - franklampard 6y ago
    Source?
chosenbreed37 6y ago
> A resolution is difficult. China is a totalitarian country and totalitarianism needs to be fought, but I doubt that a democratic China would be any different when it comes to their claims to the world. I wonder about this. Why does totalitarianism in a sovereign nation need to be fought? For those of us considering a democratic China...why do we think the country would fare better as a democracy? The Chinese civilisation is goes back thousands of years. Could the system they have now be the cumulative effect of all they have gone through to date? In other words it has evolved and generally serves its people. It may evolve into something else (possibly resembling Western democracies) but it may not. I don't particularly think it has to.

room271 6y ago

I'm not sure it's just a China-US thing. I think Europe will increasingly find itself taking a role. India too. To clarify, while US-China superficially seem like the 'sides'. Really, what I think is happening is that the values of many (especially Western) countries around human rights, democracy, freedom of religion and expression, are coming into conflict with a new kind of Chinese authoritarianism that really doesn't care for these things and is quite willing to subjugate large groups of people in doing so (Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong, claims to Taiwan, etc.).

3PercentMan 6y ago
Enough of your nonsense. You don't have the higher moral grounds when it comes to human rights. How many Muslims have been killed during the wars in the middle east? Stop smoking crack already and getting high on koolaid.
- Waterfall 6y ago
  1RMB has been deposited into your bank account
  - dang 6y ago
    Please don't do this here.
- kwistzhaderach 6y ago
  What makes you think he’s American?
- dang 6y ago
  Hey, please don't break the site guidelines like this. We ban account that do that. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and sticking to the rules when posting here, we'd be grateful.
Wohlf 6y ago
The annexation of Tibet was in 1951, claims to Taiwan have always been there, and the subjugation of millions is nothing new (Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution were in the 50s and 60s). I think people are just waking up to the reality that the opening of China will not automatically lead to greater liberalism as was predicted.