6 ms·

I expect that we'll see a lot of this. At least it's getting caught before it gets to consumers? But not entirely impressed with the work Apple is making develo

I expect that we'll see a lot of this. At least it's getting caught before it gets to consumers? But not entirely impressed with the work Apple is making developers shoulder.

dilap 6y ago
Is there any alternative though (other than not switching to ARM?)? I guess Apple could go out and try to preemptively fix all software, but that seems excessive to expect. :-)
- crooked-v 6y ago
  They're actually actively contributing to a number of major open-source projects to fix ARM issues: https://twitter.com/wongmjane/status/1275177255681982464 https://twitter.com/wongmjane/status/1275177255681982464
  - chongli 6y ago
    If anyone out there is reading this and wondering whether the switch to ARM is part of some plan to eventually lock down macOS to the same level as iOS, they need only click the above link. Why would Apple dedicate engineers to fixing up all these open source projects if they were planning to lock them out? I think this very clearly demonstrates Apple’s commitment to supporting open source, user-installed software on Macs, outside of the Mac App Store.
    - orangecat 6y ago
      Yes, developers need to be able to run arbitrary code. But that's not inconsistent with macOS being locked down by default and requiring a developer certificate to run unapproved software. Of course, moving to ARM is orthogonal to that; Apple could just as easily impose restrictions on x86 Macs. The only immediate downside to ARM is the loss of the ability to boot other OSes, which has apparently been getting more difficult anyway due to custom hardware like the T2 chip.
      - chongli 6y ago
        Click the link. Not all of those are developer tools. Blender being a prominent example. Apple's contribution to Blender is inconsistent with a goal of "requiring a developer certificate to run unapproved software." No, I think Apple will always keep the Mac as a platform where end users can run unapproved software with appropriate warnings. The Mac is a serious tool for many different roles, not just development, and not every tool fits into Apple's App Store ecosystem. This is Apple's tacit acknowledgement of that fact.
        orangecat 6y ago
        Not all of those are developer tools. Blender being a prominent example." Sure, and Blender could be in the app store. (There are possible issues with the GPL, but Apple could fix that if they cared to). No, I think Apple will always keep the Mac as a platform where end users can run unapproved software with appropriate warnings. Well, if you believe Apple's messaging, then using an iPad for real work is not only possible but often better than a traditional computer, and also it's too dangerous to allow unapproved software on it even if users had to explicitly opt in. I think it's entirely possible (although far from certain) that Apple could decide that the App Store is good enough for 80% of users, and everyone else can either pay for developer/pro access or go away. I don't think moving to ARM makes that more likely, but nor do I think contributing open source fixes makes it less likely.
        ex3ndr 6y ago
        You don't have to pay to use XCode to run something on iPad.
        xenadu02 6y ago
        The message has been clear for years now. It was re-iterated in WWDC videos and various interviews. The Mac is the Mac. It has been and will continue to be the machine where you can install software not approved by Apple, turn off security, and otherwise poke at the system. You can still create your own kext caches and mount the root filesystem as read-write on Apple Silicon. The procedure has changed but the ability to do it has not. I really honestly don't know how much clearer it can be.
- panzagl 6y ago
  Tell that to Raymond Chen :-)
  - dilap 6y ago
    Ha, good response!
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

I expect that we'll see a lot of this. At least it's getting caught before it gets to consumers? But not entirely impressed with the work Apple is making developers shoulder.

dilap 6y ago

Is there any alternative though (other than not switching to ARM?)? I guess Apple could go out and try to preemptively fix all software, but that seems excessive to expect. :-)

crooked-v 6y ago
They're actually actively contributing to a number of major open-source projects to fix ARM issues: https://twitter.com/wongmjane/status/1275177255681982464 https://twitter.com/wongmjane/status/1275177255681982464
- chongli 6y ago
  If anyone out there is reading this and wondering whether the switch to ARM is part of some plan to eventually lock down macOS to the same level as iOS, they need only click the above link. Why would Apple dedicate engineers to fixing up all these open source projects if they were planning to lock them out? I think this very clearly demonstrates Apple’s commitment to supporting open source, user-installed software on Macs, outside of the Mac App Store.
  - orangecat 6y ago
    Yes, developers need to be able to run arbitrary code. But that's not inconsistent with macOS being locked down by default and requiring a developer certificate to run unapproved software. Of course, moving to ARM is orthogonal to that; Apple could just as easily impose restrictions on x86 Macs. The only immediate downside to ARM is the loss of the ability to boot other OSes, which has apparently been getting more difficult anyway due to custom hardware like the T2 chip.
    - chongli 6y ago
      Click the link. Not all of those are developer tools. Blender being a prominent example. Apple's contribution to Blender is inconsistent with a goal of "requiring a developer certificate to run unapproved software." No, I think Apple will always keep the Mac as a platform where end users can run unapproved software with appropriate warnings. The Mac is a serious tool for many different roles, not just development, and not every tool fits into Apple's App Store ecosystem. This is Apple's tacit acknowledgement of that fact.
      - orangecat 6y ago
        Not all of those are developer tools. Blender being a prominent example." Sure, and Blender could be in the app store. (There are possible issues with the GPL, but Apple could fix that if they cared to). No, I think Apple will always keep the Mac as a platform where end users can run unapproved software with appropriate warnings. Well, if you believe Apple's messaging, then using an iPad for real work is not only possible but often better than a traditional computer, and also it's too dangerous to allow unapproved software on it even if users had to explicitly opt in. I think it's entirely possible (although far from certain) that Apple could decide that the App Store is good enough for 80% of users, and everyone else can either pay for developer/pro access or go away. I don't think moving to ARM makes that more likely, but nor do I think contributing open source fixes makes it less likely.
        ex3ndr 6y ago
        You don't have to pay to use XCode to run something on iPad.
        xenadu02 6y ago
        The message has been clear for years now. It was re-iterated in WWDC videos and various interviews. The Mac is the Mac. It has been and will continue to be the machine where you can install software not approved by Apple, turn off security, and otherwise poke at the system. You can still create your own kext caches and mount the root filesystem as read-write on Apple Silicon. The procedure has changed but the ability to do it has not. I really honestly don't know how much clearer it can be.
panzagl 6y ago
Tell that to Raymond Chen :-)
- dilap 6y ago
  Ha, good response!
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]