4 ms·

This is bad for Canadians recently, with many arrests and accusations of spying, all because of political retaliation over that rich lady

adventured 6y ago
For Australia as well. They recently gave an Australian citizen a death penalty sentence in retaliation for the ongoing conflict between Australia and China. At the rate things are going, in another five years nobody from a liberal nation will be able to safely visit Xi's new hermit kingdom. It's a shame. I always thought it would be nice to visit Hong Kong.
- derefr 6y ago
  A real "hermit kingdom" has no exports, though, no? If China is going that way, I can't imagine how it plans to keep its economy going. Does it think its urban centers are already self-sufficient centers of economic demand for the products it produces currently?
  - kolanos 6y ago
    Doesn't take much imagination. Pre-1975 China?
    - poiuytrewqa 6y ago
      pre 1975 China was pretty different and thinking that it will go back to that state is pretty arrogant. Now, compared to then, China has a huge internal market thanks to the rising of the middle class that could take the clash of a potential export collapse by leveraging their internal market. So said, whenever there's somebody exporting there's another one importing. Perhaps we should ask ourselves where are we going to get the goods that now are produced largely in China.
  - adventured 6y ago
    I don't think total isolation in every regard is a requirement. Wikipedia refers to it as: "The term hermit kingdom is used to refer to any country, organization or society which willfully walls itself off, either metaphorically or physically, from the rest of the world." Seems reasonable. China is going to become increasingly walled off in terms of physical access into China (and they'll likely further restrict foreign travel by their citizens), matching how they've already walled the country off with regards to the Internet & foreign press. It had to happen, the smothering process has to continue indefinitely until or unless they reverse course on liberalization. These processes tend to spiral down by necessity. The more you clamp down, the more you have to clamp down; you can't allow challenges to the vast number of invented narratives (which comes from foreign injection: outside press, outside visitors, allowing a large number of your citizens to visit other nations and see that the narratives are falsified, etc). The exports would be the last thing to get walled off, I'd expect. Neither side of the wall really wants that. It's not hard to see a scenario where China is highly isolated socially and culturally, while still being an immense export power.
- pjc50 6y ago
  I'm very glad that I managed to visit it in the early 2000s. One of my abiding impressions and favourite photos of the trip was a street where signage had proliferated so much that it was solid, and the only constraint on incursion into the street was whether or not it got hit by a bus. The ubiquitous vendors of fake watches and shops offering to make you a suit. Skyscrapers on every surface that wasn't a 45 degree slope. The outdoor escalator. Huge, neat, organised, airconditioned subway.
- Aperocky 6y ago
  > Karm Gilespie, had been sentenced to death for attempting to smuggle 7.5kg of methamphetamine through a Chinese airport in December 2013. The death penalty threshold is 50 gram for methamphetamine in China, in absence of other 'good behavior' such as collaboration, etc. If any Chinese citizen attempted to smuggle this much drugs into China, it's going to be the same fate, except maybe faster. Drug dealers in China are executed for much less. To paint that as 'retaliation for ongoing conflict' is laughable.
  - kortilla 6y ago
    So the police can conveniently plant an amount of drugs that fits in their hands quickly into your pocket and you get the death penalty? Sounds like a super convenient way to kill off politically inconvenient people.
    - genoapol 6y ago
      >So the police can conveniently plant an amount of drugs that fits in their hands quickly into your pocket... Sounds like something US police have done in record numbers with many cases caught on camera. ---Reply to Tristor here due to post rate limit Knowing history, western hypocrisy, and warhawking when I see it, is "Pro-China" now? Were you alive during the ramp up to the Iraq war? I suspect many would have incorrectly shared your sentiment if I was publicly anti-invasion. When the US military industrial complex yells "squirrel" repeatedly, choosing to not be a sucker isn't "Pro-China" or "Pro-Iraq".
      - tristor 6y ago
        At least this statement is relatively accurate, although I don't know that the phrase "record numbers" applies. Every single comment you've made in this thread has been an example of pro-China whataboutism. You claim to be European, but I'm pretty sure you're not. You've had an account just over 30 days on HN and every comment you have made is pro-China. Seems to me you are not a legitimate participant in this discussion.
    - gentleman11 6y ago
- makomk 6y ago
  Yeah, the Australian government gave its own citizens a very similar warning about travelling to China a few days ago: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-07/dfat-changes-travel-advice-for-australians-in-china/12431134 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-07/dfat-changes-travel-a...

adventured 6y ago

For Australia as well. They recently gave an Australian citizen a death penalty sentence in retaliation for the ongoing conflict between Australia and China. At the rate things are going, in another five years nobody from a liberal nation will be able to safely visit Xi's new hermit kingdom. It's a shame. I always thought it would be nice to visit Hong Kong.

derefr 6y ago
A real "hermit kingdom" has no exports, though, no? If China is going that way, I can't imagine how it plans to keep its economy going. Does it think its urban centers are already self-sufficient centers of economic demand for the products it produces currently?
- kolanos 6y ago
  Doesn't take much imagination. Pre-1975 China?
  - poiuytrewqa 6y ago
    pre 1975 China was pretty different and thinking that it will go back to that state is pretty arrogant. Now, compared to then, China has a huge internal market thanks to the rising of the middle class that could take the clash of a potential export collapse by leveraging their internal market. So said, whenever there's somebody exporting there's another one importing. Perhaps we should ask ourselves where are we going to get the goods that now are produced largely in China.
- adventured 6y ago
  I don't think total isolation in every regard is a requirement. Wikipedia refers to it as: "The term hermit kingdom is used to refer to any country, organization or society which willfully walls itself off, either metaphorically or physically, from the rest of the world." Seems reasonable. China is going to become increasingly walled off in terms of physical access into China (and they'll likely further restrict foreign travel by their citizens), matching how they've already walled the country off with regards to the Internet & foreign press. It had to happen, the smothering process has to continue indefinitely until or unless they reverse course on liberalization. These processes tend to spiral down by necessity. The more you clamp down, the more you have to clamp down; you can't allow challenges to the vast number of invented narratives (which comes from foreign injection: outside press, outside visitors, allowing a large number of your citizens to visit other nations and see that the narratives are falsified, etc). The exports would be the last thing to get walled off, I'd expect. Neither side of the wall really wants that. It's not hard to see a scenario where China is highly isolated socially and culturally, while still being an immense export power.
pjc50 6y ago
I'm very glad that I managed to visit it in the early 2000s. One of my abiding impressions and favourite photos of the trip was a street where signage had proliferated so much that it was solid, and the only constraint on incursion into the street was whether or not it got hit by a bus. The ubiquitous vendors of fake watches and shops offering to make you a suit. Skyscrapers on every surface that wasn't a 45 degree slope. The outdoor escalator. Huge, neat, organised, airconditioned subway.
Aperocky 6y ago
> Karm Gilespie, had been sentenced to death for attempting to smuggle 7.5kg of methamphetamine through a Chinese airport in December 2013. The death penalty threshold is 50 gram for methamphetamine in China, in absence of other 'good behavior' such as collaboration, etc. If any Chinese citizen attempted to smuggle this much drugs into China, it's going to be the same fate, except maybe faster. Drug dealers in China are executed for much less. To paint that as 'retaliation for ongoing conflict' is laughable.
- kortilla 6y ago
  So the police can conveniently plant an amount of drugs that fits in their hands quickly into your pocket and you get the death penalty? Sounds like a super convenient way to kill off politically inconvenient people.
  - genoapol 6y ago
    >So the police can conveniently plant an amount of drugs that fits in their hands quickly into your pocket... Sounds like something US police have done in record numbers with many cases caught on camera. ---Reply to Tristor here due to post rate limit Knowing history, western hypocrisy, and warhawking when I see it, is "Pro-China" now? Were you alive during the ramp up to the Iraq war? I suspect many would have incorrectly shared your sentiment if I was publicly anti-invasion. When the US military industrial complex yells "squirrel" repeatedly, choosing to not be a sucker isn't "Pro-China" or "Pro-Iraq".
    - tristor 6y ago
      At least this statement is relatively accurate, although I don't know that the phrase "record numbers" applies. Every single comment you've made in this thread has been an example of pro-China whataboutism. You claim to be European, but I'm pretty sure you're not. You've had an account just over 30 days on HN and every comment you have made is pro-China. Seems to me you are not a legitimate participant in this discussion.
  - gentleman11 6y ago
makomk 6y ago
Yeah, the Australian government gave its own citizens a very similar warning about travelling to China a few days ago: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-07/dfat-changes-travel-advice-for-australians-in-china/12431134 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-07/dfat-changes-travel-a...