5 ms·

Google has ticked off IBM, Oracle, and many in the open-source world

45 points by amaajemyfren 6y ago

hrcxxx 6y ago
Paywall. Not cool.
- sixhobbits 6y ago
  "In comments, it's ok to ask how to read an article and to help other users do so. But please don't post complaints about paywalls. Those are off topic."
  - thaumasiotes 6y ago
    If we complain enough about paywalls, the guidelines will change.
    - snarfy 6y ago
      After being on here for 10 years, I have zero expectations that policy will ever change. I see you've been on here quite a while yourself. I don't have that kind of hope anymore. Websites pay each other for Referer hits. It may or may not be true that HN gets money for paywall stories, but I don't see any ads on HN, do you? Do you ever notice paywalled stories staying on the front page longer even when they have few upvotes?
- smartbit 6y ago
  With https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome/ https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome/ no paywall issues for me.
  - paulie_a 6y ago
    Thanks for the project link. I've just been using the "don't show articles from____" feature in my Android/google news feed.
- touristtam 6y ago
  https://outline.com/tV7NUD https://outline.com/tV7NUD
capableweb 6y ago
Annoying paywall, how is businessinsider.com even allowed on HN nowadays? Here is the full article: http://archive.is/1oTMU http://archive.is/1oTMU > While Istio is an open-source project — meaning anybody, anywhere can contribute code Seems the meaning of open source is getting more and more perverse as time goes on. Open source never has meant that anyone can contribute code, it's just about you being able to use/modify the code as you wish. In no way does open source projects automatically means they have an open governance, although those two licenses/methods are often combined together.
- pndy 6y ago
  > Annoying paywall, how is businessinsider.com even allowed on HN nowadays? Just a "funny" thing to share: because of adblocking extensions I'm unable load any of their articles - whatever I click from BI, no matter if it's US or Polish version, I'm getting 404.
  - paulie_a 6y ago
    Don't worry too much. It's business insider, even of the page works the content is 404.
  - consumer451 6y ago
    I have my iOS Safari set to display webpages in Reader View by default. Among the benefits is that BI’s paywall is avoided. I imagine that Reader Mode would also work for this purpose on Firefox desktop. Also, I have Firefox Focus set as a Safari content blocker and have no issues.
    - hbogert 6y ago
      If you're fast enough to click the reader button, the paywall is indeed omitted
- MereInterest 6y ago
  I feel like that is a consequence of people being so entrenched in a centralized mindset that the possibility of a user customizing their own version of the software doesn't even occur to them. Open source is frequently touted as allowing anyone to make changes to the software to suit their needs. If somebody hears that while having the incorrect mental model of a single canonical version of software, I can see how they would assume that anyone can contribute to that single canonical version.
nix23 6y ago
Crazy i don't see a paywall, are they turning the paywall of if they have many hits without logins? Maybe??
- prepend 6y ago
  I don’t think I’ve ever been to business insider and I had a subscriber blocker pop up instead of the article.
  - nix23 6y ago
    NO i mean when different ip's in a short time go to the Article with out reading it (login), they open the paywall so that they can 'hide' the paywall, a still be linked to sites like HN. Why the down-vote? I have uBlock and Privacy Badger and no login at businessinsider and i see no paywall. Proof: https://imgur.com/a/53MNorf https://imgur.com/a/53MNorf EDIT: Nice i see! Everyone mentioned 'paywall' got a Down-vote @HN maybe wanna block that poorly written BI robot?
    - nix23 6y ago
      Test mentioning 'paywall'
    - nix23 6y ago
      Test mentioning 'pafwall' ;)
amaajemyfren 6y ago
There is concern that some people can not access the link. Here it is from Web Archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20200712115236/http://www.businessinsider.com/google-ibm-istio-trademark-open-source-2020-7?IR=T https://web.archive.org/web/20200712115236/http://www.busine...
smartbit 6y ago
Discussion 3 days ago Why IBM doesn’t agree with Google’s Open Usage Commons for the Istio project (ibm.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23776994 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23776994
zozbot234 6y ago
If this is a pure trademark issue, what keeps the "ticked off" organizations from forking the project under a non-trademarked name? Just call it cloudweasel, or something.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  Only Google considers it to be a trademark issue. The external developers were hoping that having the project in the CNCF would allow them to have more say over its development while still benefiting from Google's ongoing contributions. Now they have to pick one or the other.
stunt 6y ago
I'm not sure if calling Kubernetes a strategic mistake is real. The fight over container orchestration was not over until everyone felt safe and could trust it. Development experience, features etc did play a role as well, but it probably couldn't win it alone. CNCF played a huge role to its widespread success if you don't count early adopters. I'm not sure if this is a right move after all the support that Google did put behind CNCF. I personally would be more happy to see Google being more transparent with their intends instead of saying it's all about trademark management.
jart 6y ago
Google needs improvement on self awareness w.r.t. open source. They used to be better at generating good will in the community. They've certainly done a lot to make many people needlessly unhappy in recent years. It's like a fat cat who owns the whole cake, yet claws the little guy for wanting a few crumbs.
fierarul 6y ago
Tempest in a teapot. What's wrong with competing open source foundations? Wrong people on the board?! I find this supremely rich considering OpenJDK is 100% Oracle and not under the wing of any foundation. So much for open governance. Of course OpenJDK as an internal Oracle project has some hybrid imaginary "board" where Oracle has 2 of the 5 seats by default and you need 4 votes to veto something (which means, no dice without Oracle). IBM of all should be used to fork projects just to control the pace and trademark. See the recent GraalVM fork (made by RedHat).
- tomComb 6y ago
  This is about pushing Google too live up to its commitments, and to its reputation as one of the biggest supporters of open source. Comparing it to Oracle (or AWS etc) is a bit of a red herring as they are no friends to open source and make no bones about being ruthlessly out for themselves.
  - fierarul 6y ago
    As an outsider all I see is political struggle of the kind corporations create. As an user of open source I don't see why I would be stressed out this project didn't land under the stewardship of CNCF, a foundation created just 5 years ago.

45 points by amaajemyfren 6y ago

hrcxxx 6y ago

Paywall. Not cool.

sixhobbits 6y ago
"In comments, it's ok to ask how to read an article and to help other users do so. But please don't post complaints about paywalls. Those are off topic."
- thaumasiotes 6y ago
  If we complain enough about paywalls, the guidelines will change.
  - snarfy 6y ago
    After being on here for 10 years, I have zero expectations that policy will ever change. I see you've been on here quite a while yourself. I don't have that kind of hope anymore. Websites pay each other for Referer hits. It may or may not be true that HN gets money for paywall stories, but I don't see any ads on HN, do you? Do you ever notice paywalled stories staying on the front page longer even when they have few upvotes?
smartbit 6y ago
With https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome/ https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome/ no paywall issues for me.
- paulie_a 6y ago
  Thanks for the project link. I've just been using the "don't show articles from____" feature in my Android/google news feed.
touristtam 6y ago
https://outline.com/tV7NUD https://outline.com/tV7NUD

capableweb 6y ago

Annoying paywall, how is businessinsider.com even allowed on HN nowadays? Here is the full article: http://archive.is/1oTMU http://archive.is/1oTMU > While Istio is an open-source project — meaning anybody, anywhere can contribute code Seems the meaning of open source is getting more and more perverse as time goes on. Open source never has meant that anyone can contribute code, it's just about you being able to use/modify the code as you wish. In no way does open source projects automatically means they have an open governance, although those two licenses/methods are often combined together.

pndy 6y ago
> Annoying paywall, how is businessinsider.com even allowed on HN nowadays? Just a "funny" thing to share: because of adblocking extensions I'm unable load any of their articles - whatever I click from BI, no matter if it's US or Polish version, I'm getting 404.
- paulie_a 6y ago
  Don't worry too much. It's business insider, even of the page works the content is 404.
- consumer451 6y ago
  I have my iOS Safari set to display webpages in Reader View by default. Among the benefits is that BI’s paywall is avoided. I imagine that Reader Mode would also work for this purpose on Firefox desktop. Also, I have Firefox Focus set as a Safari content blocker and have no issues.
  - hbogert 6y ago
    If you're fast enough to click the reader button, the paywall is indeed omitted
MereInterest 6y ago
I feel like that is a consequence of people being so entrenched in a centralized mindset that the possibility of a user customizing their own version of the software doesn't even occur to them. Open source is frequently touted as allowing anyone to make changes to the software to suit their needs. If somebody hears that while having the incorrect mental model of a single canonical version of software, I can see how they would assume that anyone can contribute to that single canonical version.

nix23 6y ago

Crazy i don't see a paywall, are they turning the paywall of if they have many hits without logins? Maybe??

prepend 6y ago
I don’t think I’ve ever been to business insider and I had a subscriber blocker pop up instead of the article.
- nix23 6y ago
  NO i mean when different ip's in a short time go to the Article with out reading it (login), they open the paywall so that they can 'hide' the paywall, a still be linked to sites like HN. Why the down-vote? I have uBlock and Privacy Badger and no login at businessinsider and i see no paywall. Proof: https://imgur.com/a/53MNorf https://imgur.com/a/53MNorf EDIT: Nice i see! Everyone mentioned 'paywall' got a Down-vote @HN maybe wanna block that poorly written BI robot?
  - nix23 6y ago
    Test mentioning 'paywall'
  - nix23 6y ago
    Test mentioning 'pafwall' ;)

amaajemyfren 6y ago

There is concern that some people can not access the link. Here it is from Web Archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20200712115236/http://www.businessinsider.com/google-ibm-istio-trademark-open-source-2020-7?IR=T https://web.archive.org/web/20200712115236/http://www.busine...

smartbit 6y ago

Discussion 3 days ago Why IBM doesn’t agree with Google’s Open Usage Commons for the Istio project (ibm.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23776994 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23776994

zozbot234 6y ago

If this is a pure trademark issue, what keeps the "ticked off" organizations from forking the project under a non-trademarked name? Just call it cloudweasel, or something.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
Only Google considers it to be a trademark issue. The external developers were hoping that having the project in the CNCF would allow them to have more say over its development while still benefiting from Google's ongoing contributions. Now they have to pick one or the other.

stunt 6y ago

I'm not sure if calling Kubernetes a strategic mistake is real. The fight over container orchestration was not over until everyone felt safe and could trust it. Development experience, features etc did play a role as well, but it probably couldn't win it alone. CNCF played a huge role to its widespread success if you don't count early adopters. I'm not sure if this is a right move after all the support that Google did put behind CNCF. I personally would be more happy to see Google being more transparent with their intends instead of saying it's all about trademark management.

jart 6y ago

Google needs improvement on self awareness w.r.t. open source. They used to be better at generating good will in the community. They've certainly done a lot to make many people needlessly unhappy in recent years. It's like a fat cat who owns the whole cake, yet claws the little guy for wanting a few crumbs.

fierarul 6y ago

Tempest in a teapot. What's wrong with competing open source foundations? Wrong people on the board?! I find this supremely rich considering OpenJDK is 100% Oracle and not under the wing of any foundation. So much for open governance. Of course OpenJDK as an internal Oracle project has some hybrid imaginary "board" where Oracle has 2 of the 5 seats by default and you need 4 votes to veto something (which means, no dice without Oracle). IBM of all should be used to fork projects just to control the pace and trademark. See the recent GraalVM fork (made by RedHat).

tomComb 6y ago
This is about pushing Google too live up to its commitments, and to its reputation as one of the biggest supporters of open source. Comparing it to Oracle (or AWS etc) is a bit of a red herring as they are no friends to open source and make no bones about being ruthlessly out for themselves.
- fierarul 6y ago
  As an outsider all I see is political struggle of the kind corporations create. As an user of open source I don't see why I would be stressed out this project didn't land under the stewardship of CNCF, a foundation created just 5 years ago.