4 ms·

Dan, I assume you quickly pulled this list of URLs out of a huge bunch of bookmarks related to how hn functions and is perceived by its users. (the alternative,

Dan, I assume you quickly pulled this list of URLs out of a huge bunch of bookmarks related to how hn functions and is perceived by its users. (the alternative, that these mostly negative comments related to your moderation etched themselves in your memory in such a way that you were able to search them out quickly, seems both sad and highly unlikely) I wonder if you've got a plan for the knowledge and information you're accumulating related to the function and moderation of hn, and sites like it. Have you written about your experience moderating hn?

dang 6y ago
I started collecting them years ago after posting https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13110004 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13110004. After a while that joke felt a little mean, but I kept adding to the list because I found it to be a stabilizer for my own sanity. When someone accuses you of Hitler it helps to review the Stalins and vice versa. It frames the situation differently and makes it a little easier to calm down and hopefully react better. I haven't written much about my experience moderating HN because I don't want it to be about me. Occasionally little blobs squeeze out under pressure. Also, I'm not sure I could describe it very well. It might take more of a novelist's skill to explain the experience. I'd probably just use a lot of words like "surreal" that don't say anything, or come up with metaphors that are good for venting but again, don't really explain much. What I do want to do is distill the moderation explanations I've posted over the years into a sort of expanded FAQ or commentary. If anyone has noticed how often I post HN Search links to past explanations (which I hope is not too annoying), that's because the explanations have converged over the years, on I'd guess at least a couple dozen different significant issues. Things like how we moderate politics on HN, how it's not ok to insinuate astroturfing, how we handle reposts, and so on.
- nkurz 6y ago
  > I'd probably just use a lot of words like "surreal" that don't say anything Here's one to add to your list from today (now flagged dead) that I thought was particularly surreal in its logic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23808107 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23808107. It's short, so I'll just quote it in full: Hacker News pays close attention to the content on the main page. They purge anything that doesn't trend left leaning or counters the standard left's corporate interests. For example, I posted a link to Michael Moore's film in which he eviscerates bio-fuels. This post was mysteriously removed. It was also removed the second time I posted it. This was despite the link the "A year wearing shorts to work" as another HN article link at the time continued to exist. A link to a Micheal Moore (the quintessential 90's leftist documentarian) film "eviscerating bio-fuels" is "mysteriously removed", but a fluff piece about shorts remains: Collect underpants, ?, profit!
  - dang 6y ago
    Thanks! I missed that one.
  - apatters 6y ago
    Quote seems fairly accurate to me if you just replace "Hacker News" with "Users of Hacker News." It's a forum that's populated heavily with Silicon Valley tech liberals (basically fairly left leaning with a libertarian streak, and minimal exposure to the working class demographic Moore is involved with). On top of all that the forum is skittish about embracing controversial political topics in general, because many people would prefer to just talk about tech. Why wouldn't HN users flag some Michael Moore content to oblivion? What is wrong with this? I'm a far cry from a Silicon Valley liberal, and nothing's wrong with it that I can see. There is no One Forum To Rule Them All, and there shouldn't be. Let a thousand forums bloom their own way. The one thing I'd like to see is a franchise model based on HN - this place pays just enough attention to civility and topicality to promote good discussion without feeling Orwellian. If only that magic could somehow be replicated.
    - adventured 6y ago
      > What is wrong with this? I mostly agree with you, there's nothing wrong with it. What's happening is the same thing that goes on everywhere in social media. People projecting their worldviews, opinions, and believing that their opinions are special and The One view that should prevail. That they should have a right to be heard everywhere, that their opinions should carry weight everywhere (regardless of the forum). It's like we're dealing with a very emotionally & intellectually spoiled generation, brats. The everyone gets a trophy generation. People that can't accept that their opinions don't govern the universe and are not important everywhere; nor are all opinions equally important everywhere. Social media has warped all of that severely. It's almost like it has deluded a mass of people into thinking their opinion broadcast inside of their home/space, has (or should have) the same weight when broadcast outside to the world and that the two should be given the same kind of consideration. I think this is a very common logic failure. They're unable to mentally separate concepts effectively. In my observation very few people actually invest into thinking, how to think, how to use logic, how to reason. It takes a lot of effort to get good at it. Critically people need to learn that their opinions do not always matter and are not valuable all the time. It's a concept that the woke, cancel culture generation can't tolerate. I think the US culture needs a hefty dose of this right now: your opinion is not as important as you think it is; your feelings are not that important; feelings are not more important than facts. It really is the fragile, coddled generation. They can't live with the notion of the lack of their importance. It makes perfect sense though, it's also the hyper narcissistic selfie / influencer generation. It all goes together.
- intended 6y ago
  hahaha, the forum apocrypha! I've found that having some amount of time spent to just keep a timeline of notable events on a forum is extremely crucial for any forum that lasts a long time and has political discussions on it. This should probably be a feature for all subs/forums.
- justin66 6y ago
  > What I do want to do is distill the moderation explanations I've posted over the years into a sort of expanded FAQ or commentary. I think that might be very interesting, and potentially pretty valuable to people working in a similar position. > If anyone has noticed how often I post HN Search links to past explanations (which I hope is not too annoying) Those are not annoying. (although I do not doubt you could introduce me to someone who says they are...)
- DonHopkins 6y ago
  Just out of curiosity, what is your Hitler/Stalin accusation ratio? Do you get many Mussolinis? PS: Thanks for keeping the trains running on time!

dang 6y ago

I started collecting them years ago after posting https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13110004 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13110004. After a while that joke felt a little mean, but I kept adding to the list because I found it to be a stabilizer for my own sanity. When someone accuses you of Hitler it helps to review the Stalins and vice versa. It frames the situation differently and makes it a little easier to calm down and hopefully react better. I haven't written much about my experience moderating HN because I don't want it to be about me. Occasionally little blobs squeeze out under pressure. Also, I'm not sure I could describe it very well. It might take more of a novelist's skill to explain the experience. I'd probably just use a lot of words like "surreal" that don't say anything, or come up with metaphors that are good for venting but again, don't really explain much. What I do want to do is distill the moderation explanations I've posted over the years into a sort of expanded FAQ or commentary. If anyone has noticed how often I post HN Search links to past explanations (which I hope is not too annoying), that's because the explanations have converged over the years, on I'd guess at least a couple dozen different significant issues. Things like how we moderate politics on HN, how it's not ok to insinuate astroturfing, how we handle reposts, and so on.

nkurz 6y ago
> I'd probably just use a lot of words like "surreal" that don't say anything Here's one to add to your list from today (now flagged dead) that I thought was particularly surreal in its logic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23808107 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23808107. It's short, so I'll just quote it in full: Hacker News pays close attention to the content on the main page. They purge anything that doesn't trend left leaning or counters the standard left's corporate interests. For example, I posted a link to Michael Moore's film in which he eviscerates bio-fuels. This post was mysteriously removed. It was also removed the second time I posted it. This was despite the link the "A year wearing shorts to work" as another HN article link at the time continued to exist. A link to a Micheal Moore (the quintessential 90's leftist documentarian) film "eviscerating bio-fuels" is "mysteriously removed", but a fluff piece about shorts remains: Collect underpants, ?, profit!
- dang 6y ago
  Thanks! I missed that one.
- apatters 6y ago
  Quote seems fairly accurate to me if you just replace "Hacker News" with "Users of Hacker News." It's a forum that's populated heavily with Silicon Valley tech liberals (basically fairly left leaning with a libertarian streak, and minimal exposure to the working class demographic Moore is involved with). On top of all that the forum is skittish about embracing controversial political topics in general, because many people would prefer to just talk about tech. Why wouldn't HN users flag some Michael Moore content to oblivion? What is wrong with this? I'm a far cry from a Silicon Valley liberal, and nothing's wrong with it that I can see. There is no One Forum To Rule Them All, and there shouldn't be. Let a thousand forums bloom their own way. The one thing I'd like to see is a franchise model based on HN - this place pays just enough attention to civility and topicality to promote good discussion without feeling Orwellian. If only that magic could somehow be replicated.
  - adventured 6y ago
    > What is wrong with this? I mostly agree with you, there's nothing wrong with it. What's happening is the same thing that goes on everywhere in social media. People projecting their worldviews, opinions, and believing that their opinions are special and The One view that should prevail. That they should have a right to be heard everywhere, that their opinions should carry weight everywhere (regardless of the forum). It's like we're dealing with a very emotionally & intellectually spoiled generation, brats. The everyone gets a trophy generation. People that can't accept that their opinions don't govern the universe and are not important everywhere; nor are all opinions equally important everywhere. Social media has warped all of that severely. It's almost like it has deluded a mass of people into thinking their opinion broadcast inside of their home/space, has (or should have) the same weight when broadcast outside to the world and that the two should be given the same kind of consideration. I think this is a very common logic failure. They're unable to mentally separate concepts effectively. In my observation very few people actually invest into thinking, how to think, how to use logic, how to reason. It takes a lot of effort to get good at it. Critically people need to learn that their opinions do not always matter and are not valuable all the time. It's a concept that the woke, cancel culture generation can't tolerate. I think the US culture needs a hefty dose of this right now: your opinion is not as important as you think it is; your feelings are not that important; feelings are not more important than facts. It really is the fragile, coddled generation. They can't live with the notion of the lack of their importance. It makes perfect sense though, it's also the hyper narcissistic selfie / influencer generation. It all goes together.
intended 6y ago
hahaha, the forum apocrypha! I've found that having some amount of time spent to just keep a timeline of notable events on a forum is extremely crucial for any forum that lasts a long time and has political discussions on it. This should probably be a feature for all subs/forums.
justin66 6y ago
> What I do want to do is distill the moderation explanations I've posted over the years into a sort of expanded FAQ or commentary. I think that might be very interesting, and potentially pretty valuable to people working in a similar position. > If anyone has noticed how often I post HN Search links to past explanations (which I hope is not too annoying) Those are not annoying. (although I do not doubt you could introduce me to someone who says they are...)
DonHopkins 6y ago
Just out of curiosity, what is your Hitler/Stalin accusation ratio? Do you get many Mussolinis? PS: Thanks for keeping the trains running on time!