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I'm not sure where my post would lead you to suggest that there is no middle ground. In fact I mention that (partially) by virtue of being a good athlete, I hap

by wumi 18y ago

I'm not sure where my post would lead you to suggest that there is no middle ground. In fact I mention that (partially) by virtue of being a good athlete, I happened to garner a fair amount of popularity. In fact, from your comments I'm not sure if you read what I wrote at all. Really, if you've been to public high school in America (or, as I noted, several other countries), popularity is derived mostly from good looks/general attractiveness, athletic prowess, or popularity by association (whether your siblings or your best friends). (edit: for blacks, this could and does include an affinity for hip-hop culture -- dancing, rapping, beat boxin, etc., and by good looks/attractiveness, per the article, I am inferring general outward appearance, i.e. clothes, shoes, fitted caps, etc.) There's nothing to game about the system, if you're attractive, a great athlete, or have really popular friends, you in turn, will be popular. I was at least one of those three things. If you're not one of those three things, it's highly unlikely that you are (or were) very popular. You're really just painting a broad brush when you say 'that's what these nerds don't recognize ...you just did not understand the system well enough to play it properly.' Really? There's not a conspiracy at all -- in black culture, especially amongst the youth of today, intelligence is most often looked down upon and something generally avoided, to which much of what I wrote concerned. I think you're confusing my reflection for complaints. (edit: I realize now you're just making a broad swipe at all nerd culture, apparently, and not actually rebutting my writing.)

maxklein 18y ago
Does your name not usually have an n in it? And is it not usually a girls name? I read your article to the end. This black culture looking down on intelligence thing is not new or insightful. I've read about that lots of time on the internet. Black culture does not look down on intelligence. It looks down on nerdiness. Let's imagine there is some really cool black guy - let's say the 50 cent of your high school. He does all the 'in' things and wears the right shoes etc. He also is consistently the best in the class. NOBODY would look down on him, rather, he'd be regarded with extreme awe. He'd be monster cool, and still effortlessly ace all exams. Looking good is an easy way to be popular, but there are lots of terrible looking gangster like figures who are quite popular in high schools. Being popular is about standing out in a manner that makes people want to follow you. There are many ways to do so, and each of those ways can be artificially created. It's no god given thing. I don't get what you're trying to say in your last sentence, but I never implied that pg was some superdork.
- wumi 18y ago
  This is conjecture vs. (limited) life experience. My life experience says different than your conjecture, but of course I don't presume to say that all black culture is like my personal experience, although from what I've seen, heard, and read, it mostly is.
- jimbokun 18y ago
  "He'd be monster cool, and still effortlessly ace all exams." Such people do not exist, given the "effortlessly" part. I think there is a consensus now that "talent" is mostly the end product of a lot of effort. Because outside observers do not see all of the hard work, only the end product, they infer that there must be some "talent" thing that explains why the other person can do things he cannot. I believe pg made this point, arguing that the reason that nerds do not exert the effort necessary to become popular is that it would detract from the effort they can exert towards the things that are really important to them.
  - BrandonM 18y ago
    Just for the record, I felt like I effortlessly did very well on most of my tests in high school. All I did was go to class, stay awake as much as possible, and do my homework. I never had to study in high school, where I was valedictorian, and I actually feel like my high school was pretty good. I did well on standardized tests (35 ACT, 1500 SAT), and felt at least as prepared as other freshman honors students at the Ohio State University. Honestly, I'm not trying to brag here, but I do want to provide a counterpoint to your "consensus". I agree that many talents (musical, visual art, sports, etc.) require a lot of effort. Perhaps in the sense of general mental exercise, there is effort involved in being intelligent: I read a lot in high school, and I always find myself playing weird numbers games in my head (like adding up the digits of long numbers to see if it's divisible by 3 or 9). But as far as putting in a lot of effort to "ace all exams", I never really felt like I had to do that, and I highly doubt that I'm the only person like this.
twism 18y ago
Glad to see another black (and of nigerian descent to boot) hacker on News.YC.

by wumi 18y ago

maxklein 18y ago

Does your name not usually have an n in it? And is it not usually a girls name? I read your article to the end. This black culture looking down on intelligence thing is not new or insightful. I've read about that lots of time on the internet. Black culture does not look down on intelligence. It looks down on nerdiness. Let's imagine there is some really cool black guy - let's say the 50 cent of your high school. He does all the 'in' things and wears the right shoes etc. He also is consistently the best in the class. NOBODY would look down on him, rather, he'd be regarded with extreme awe. He'd be monster cool, and still effortlessly ace all exams. Looking good is an easy way to be popular, but there are lots of terrible looking gangster like figures who are quite popular in high schools. Being popular is about standing out in a manner that makes people want to follow you. There are many ways to do so, and each of those ways can be artificially created. It's no god given thing. I don't get what you're trying to say in your last sentence, but I never implied that pg was some superdork.

wumi 18y ago
This is conjecture vs. (limited) life experience. My life experience says different than your conjecture, but of course I don't presume to say that all black culture is like my personal experience, although from what I've seen, heard, and read, it mostly is.
jimbokun 18y ago
"He'd be monster cool, and still effortlessly ace all exams." Such people do not exist, given the "effortlessly" part. I think there is a consensus now that "talent" is mostly the end product of a lot of effort. Because outside observers do not see all of the hard work, only the end product, they infer that there must be some "talent" thing that explains why the other person can do things he cannot. I believe pg made this point, arguing that the reason that nerds do not exert the effort necessary to become popular is that it would detract from the effort they can exert towards the things that are really important to them.
- BrandonM 18y ago
  Just for the record, I felt like I effortlessly did very well on most of my tests in high school. All I did was go to class, stay awake as much as possible, and do my homework. I never had to study in high school, where I was valedictorian, and I actually feel like my high school was pretty good. I did well on standardized tests (35 ACT, 1500 SAT), and felt at least as prepared as other freshman honors students at the Ohio State University. Honestly, I'm not trying to brag here, but I do want to provide a counterpoint to your "consensus". I agree that many talents (musical, visual art, sports, etc.) require a lot of effort. Perhaps in the sense of general mental exercise, there is effort involved in being intelligent: I read a lot in high school, and I always find myself playing weird numbers games in my head (like adding up the digits of long numbers to see if it's divisible by 3 or 9). But as far as putting in a lot of effort to "ace all exams", I never really felt like I had to do that, and I highly doubt that I'm the only person like this.

twism 18y ago

Glad to see another black (and of nigerian descent to boot) hacker on News.YC.