9 ms·

I can attest to this. Being right means nothing in a relationship unless it is combined with compassion. I've been married for 20 years, and life now sucks as I

I can attest to this. Being right means nothing in a relationship unless it is combined with compassion. I've been married for 20 years, and life now sucks as I am belittled or criticised on a regular basis. My children and I constantly walk on egg shells around my wife. And of course she is always right. Having a partner who is always right is one of the worst things that can happen to anyone. Each day feels like a challenge to live without setting off the ticking time bomb that my wife is. Trouble is, I can't seem to find a way to communicate with my wife. She doesn't want to see a therapist. I am an immigrant in a foreign country and have no family or close friends I can turn to. I'm just waiting for my kid to leave for college and then hopefully I can find a way out. I've reached a point where I detest people who are convinced they are right. The best thing anyone ever said to me when I told them that as I age I am less certain about everything and they said: "It means you are growing up". I wish someone would tell my wife that. She is dead certain about everything in life.

lovemenot 6y ago
Your life situation is very similar to my own. Except for the one key difference. Your comment made me appreciate my Japanese wife's daily tolerance even more. Thanks to you I have just told her so.
seattle_spring 6y ago
I'm really sorry you're dealing with this. My father was similar to my mother, me, and my siblings, and it's still fucking me up decades after moving out.
- throwaway136466 6y ago
  Same here, except I'm not moved out yet. Here's hoping we're all able to get past it.
ximeng 6y ago
You don't need to wait for kid to leave for college to stand up for yourself. Make plans to be ready to leave is first step to communicating. You can't influence her behaviour without changing your own.
ncarroll 6y ago
I think you are on to something with the need for combining compassion for all parties with nearly every emotion in a relationship. If she wasn't always like this maybe she is feeling now like she is in over her head and doesn't know how to admit that to a world she feels is expecting her to perform flawlessly. Sometimes, always needing to be right can be a form of frustration and criticism an expression of helplessness. In that case, maybe talk is less helpful. I am not a psychologist. I'm only speaking from my own experience, but it is helping me in a situation something like yours to look carefully at circumstance and hear criticism gently, less personally. I am finding that "a little less talk and a little more (compassionate) action" is key in my situation. I wish you the best of luck finding the key to yours.
pdfernhout 6y ago
That must be difficult -- especially feeling isolated as an immigrant. Kudos to you for doing a lot of hard work emotionally to stick with an unpleasant situation for so long for your kids and planning to tough it out for another few years for them. That effort acknowledged, is there any way to make things better for everyone involved so the energy it takes up for emotional endurance in the face of difficulty could go into other more positive directions? Creating a face-to-face support group for yourself with even just one local friend might help (difficult right now with the pandemic). Or if that seemed impossible (you could ask yourself why), if you turned to a professional counselor just for yourself (given your wife won't go), after evaluating your situation (and charging you a bunch of money as essentially a paid friend), here are some things that maybe one might say depending on the circumstances? (Along with the many other great things people have posted in response to this article.) You might find of interest books by John Gottman on marriage like "What Makes Love Last?" in trying to improve things -- or at least understand them better to accept or reject them. A key point Gottman makes (and which the article echoes) is that contempt (e.g. "belittling") is a bad sign in marriage. Ideally something could be done to turn that around. Many books talk about the importance of communication in relationships, but there are lots of happy marriages where people don't "communicate" or even may communicate badly -- but what they do usually have is mutual respect in some form (maybe even in unexpected and quirky ways specific to the relationship). In theory living with someone who is always right (if such were indeed the case) could be an asset (e.g. an exponentially expanding stock portfolio, always the "right" thing to say to comfort someone, always choosing the right home improvement contractor, always buying the right car for changing family needs, etc.). So why does being right have to be coupled with the problematical behavior to you that makes you unhappy? The issue of lack of compassion and kindness seems a different one than being right. As one possible explanation, you might want to look into Asperger's and women, in case a poor "theory of mind" in terms of understanding someone else's feelings and perceptions is an aspect of this (and if such were the case, there are books on making the most of that). A link to Gottman's work, Asperger's in women, and some other resources like for coping with stress (and even depression) are in this reading list I've put together: https://github.com/pdfernhout/High-Performance-Organizations-Reading-List https://github.com/pdfernhout/High-Performance-Organizations... Books on using positive reinforcement to shape behavior as is done with dolphins (and profoundly autistic children) might also be of interest (e.g. Karen Pryor's "Don't Shoot the Dog!: The New Art of Teaching and Training"). A variation of that idea is changing your behavior when your wife does something to avoid reinforcing your wife's behaviors -- kind of like discussed in "Bullies to Buddies" by Izzy Kalman. That last may sound like "blaming the victim" but, as Izzy Kalman says, sadly and realistically "victims" are usually more motivated to change. People generally do more of something when they feel rewarded for it and less of something when rewards are absent. The tricky thing about rewards is that rare random rewards tend to be the most reinforcing. So reacting to your wife's negative behavior some way only occasionally (say, one out of five times you react in a way she wants) can be highly reinforcing to your wife's behavior. Similarly when your wife occasionally does something that can be seen as kind or compassionate, how can that be appropriately reinforced? Or maybe there are other underlying stresses in your wife's life unrelated to home that could be addressed somehow to reduce the problem -- like having a dog that reacts badly to certain situations and keeping them away from the situation? That at least might reduce the scale of the issue. I once made a list of dozens of ways to shape behavior (including just accepting the problematical behavior and thinking of it as a reminder about other good things in the situation -- e.g. trying to see dirty dishes left in the sink as a reminder of overall goodness). Maybe you could make such a list to give yourself ideas? Still, while operant conditioning may help in theory smooth out some rough edges, humans are also more complex social, intellectual, and spiritual beings and there is a lot more to relationships and happiness than control (and of course being "right"). For example, Carol Dweck writes about how it is best to teach children that "the brain is like a muscle" and the more you use it, the smarter you get. She says kids who were told they were "smart" or "talented" as kids often become fearful of trying out new things where they might fail which would tarnish their self image of being "smart". Such children praised for being "smart" also often tend towards tearing others down in order to keep themselves feeling up as "image maintenance" (a possible origin of what was mentioned in the article). Thus it is better to praise effort or progress in kids (or adults). If it is the case with your wife's upbringing that she was praised as being "smart", I'm not sure what to suggest -- but maybe some reflection on that might lead to new possibilities? To create a situation where people can grow and accept imperfections as one way to help, maybe both of you trying something new together (swing dancing?) -- laughing together at your mistakes while learning? In general, someone who thinks they are right all the time probably is avoiding personal growth by taking on new challenges. For example, one humbling experience for me was to play "World of Tanks" with my son when I was around age 50 and he was really getting into it. Even though I eventually battled my way up to tier ten American artillery through a lot of effort (and ~US$250 worth of "gold"), I had to accept was never very good at WOT relative to many other players in the game (even as for some tanks I was able to be about average). And compared to artillery, I am much worse at light tanks like my son usually plays which require quicker reactions (whereas artillery generally requires more patience and planning). One can look at the WOT stats for all players -- so it is hard to fool yourself about how good you are -- including for artillery guessing how tanks will move so you can lead your shots correctly. While there are activities in life I am good at (and tend to gravitate towards), it was a beneficial experience for me at my age to reinforce the need for continual learning. It was also a good reminder that one can be not that great at something and still have fun at it with someone you care about. That (challenging) WOT experience also helped me be a better employee with a new job going up multiple learning curves in new areas -- in terms of being more patient with my own current limits and also the current limits of others. Even if someone was right all the time, one person can't be everywhere and do more than one or a few things at once. Thus the adage for perfectionists to contemplate of: "The woods would be pretty quiet if no bird sang there but the best." Also, if your wife is right so often because she is a perfectionist, "perfectionism" has its own personal sorrows: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfectionism_(psychology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfectionism_(psychology) Ultimately, a problematical relationship doesn't necessarily mean the people in it are problems. It just means the particular match was challenging and the people involved did not have the skills or circumstance or priorities to make that particular combination of personalities work better. Sometimes skills can be upgraded or circumstances changed or priorities reevaluated. And, sadly sometimes not. The "Ann Landers question" was never "Can you find someone better?" since that is in theory always possible if unlikely, but "Are you better with or without them?" If you have already answered that question (all things considered, including kids) as "with", then hopefully some of the above could help make things a bit better. Good luck with managing the situation as best as possible for the most happiness possible for yourself and your family. And maybe all these ideas are wrong or inappropriate for your situation... :-)

lovemenot 6y ago

Your life situation is very similar to my own. Except for the one key difference. Your comment made me appreciate my Japanese wife's daily tolerance even more. Thanks to you I have just told her so.

seattle_spring 6y ago

I'm really sorry you're dealing with this. My father was similar to my mother, me, and my siblings, and it's still fucking me up decades after moving out.

throwaway136466 6y ago
Same here, except I'm not moved out yet. Here's hoping we're all able to get past it.

ximeng 6y ago

You don't need to wait for kid to leave for college to stand up for yourself. Make plans to be ready to leave is first step to communicating. You can't influence her behaviour without changing your own.

ncarroll 6y ago

I think you are on to something with the need for combining compassion for all parties with nearly every emotion in a relationship. If she wasn't always like this maybe she is feeling now like she is in over her head and doesn't know how to admit that to a world she feels is expecting her to perform flawlessly. Sometimes, always needing to be right can be a form of frustration and criticism an expression of helplessness. In that case, maybe talk is less helpful. I am not a psychologist. I'm only speaking from my own experience, but it is helping me in a situation something like yours to look carefully at circumstance and hear criticism gently, less personally. I am finding that "a little less talk and a little more (compassionate) action" is key in my situation. I wish you the best of luck finding the key to yours.

pdfernhout 6y ago

That must be difficult -- especially feeling isolated as an immigrant. Kudos to you for doing a lot of hard work emotionally to stick with an unpleasant situation for so long for your kids and planning to tough it out for another few years for them. That effort acknowledged, is there any way to make things better for everyone involved so the energy it takes up for emotional endurance in the face of difficulty could go into other more positive directions? Creating a face-to-face support group for yourself with even just one local friend might help (difficult right now with the pandemic). Or if that seemed impossible (you could ask yourself why), if you turned to a professional counselor just for yourself (given your wife won't go), after evaluating your situation (and charging you a bunch of money as essentially a paid friend), here are some things that maybe one might say depending on the circumstances? (Along with the many other great things people have posted in response to this article.) You might find of interest books by John Gottman on marriage like "What Makes Love Last?" in trying to improve things -- or at least understand them better to accept or reject them. A key point Gottman makes (and which the article echoes) is that contempt (e.g. "belittling") is a bad sign in marriage. Ideally something could be done to turn that around. Many books talk about the importance of communication in relationships, but there are lots of happy marriages where people don't "communicate" or even may communicate badly -- but what they do usually have is mutual respect in some form (maybe even in unexpected and quirky ways specific to the relationship). In theory living with someone who is always right (if such were indeed the case) could be an asset (e.g. an exponentially expanding stock portfolio, always the "right" thing to say to comfort someone, always choosing the right home improvement contractor, always buying the right car for changing family needs, etc.). So why does being right have to be coupled with the problematical behavior to you that makes you unhappy? The issue of lack of compassion and kindness seems a different one than being right. As one possible explanation, you might want to look into Asperger's and women, in case a poor "theory of mind" in terms of understanding someone else's feelings and perceptions is an aspect of this (and if such were the case, there are books on making the most of that). A link to Gottman's work, Asperger's in women, and some other resources like for coping with stress (and even depression) are in this reading list I've put together: https://github.com/pdfernhout/High-Performance-Organizations-Reading-List https://github.com/pdfernhout/High-Performance-Organizations... Books on using positive reinforcement to shape behavior as is done with dolphins (and profoundly autistic children) might also be of interest (e.g. Karen Pryor's "Don't Shoot the Dog!: The New Art of Teaching and Training"). A variation of that idea is changing your behavior when your wife does something to avoid reinforcing your wife's behaviors -- kind of like discussed in "Bullies to Buddies" by Izzy Kalman. That last may sound like "blaming the victim" but, as Izzy Kalman says, sadly and realistically "victims" are usually more motivated to change. People generally do more of something when they feel rewarded for it and less of something when rewards are absent. The tricky thing about rewards is that rare random rewards tend to be the most reinforcing. So reacting to your wife's negative behavior some way only occasionally (say, one out of five times you react in a way she wants) can be highly reinforcing to your wife's behavior. Similarly when your wife occasionally does something that can be seen as kind or compassionate, how can that be appropriately reinforced? Or maybe there are other underlying stresses in your wife's life unrelated to home that could be addressed somehow to reduce the problem -- like having a dog that reacts badly to certain situations and keeping them away from the situation? That at least might reduce the scale of the issue. I once made a list of dozens of ways to shape behavior (including just accepting the problematical behavior and thinking of it as a reminder about other good things in the situation -- e.g. trying to see dirty dishes left in the sink as a reminder of overall goodness). Maybe you could make such a list to give yourself ideas? Still, while operant conditioning may help in theory smooth out some rough edges, humans are also more complex social, intellectual, and spiritual beings and there is a lot more to relationships and happiness than control (and of course being "right"). For example, Carol Dweck writes about how it is best to teach children that "the brain is like a muscle" and the more you use it, the smarter you get. She says kids who were told they were "smart" or "talented" as kids often become fearful of trying out new things where they might fail which would tarnish their self image of being "smart". Such children praised for being "smart" also often tend towards tearing others down in order to keep themselves feeling up as "image maintenance" (a possible origin of what was mentioned in the article). Thus it is better to praise effort or progress in kids (or adults). If it is the case with your wife's upbringing that she was praised as being "smart", I'm not sure what to suggest -- but maybe some reflection on that might lead to new possibilities? To create a situation where people can grow and accept imperfections as one way to help, maybe both of you trying something new together (swing dancing?) -- laughing together at your mistakes while learning? In general, someone who thinks they are right all the time probably is avoiding personal growth by taking on new challenges. For example, one humbling experience for me was to play "World of Tanks" with my son when I was around age 50 and he was really getting into it. Even though I eventually battled my way up to tier ten American artillery through a lot of effort (and ~US$250 worth of "gold"), I had to accept was never very good at WOT relative to many other players in the game (even as for some tanks I was able to be about average). And compared to artillery, I am much worse at light tanks like my son usually plays which require quicker reactions (whereas artillery generally requires more patience and planning). One can look at the WOT stats for all players -- so it is hard to fool yourself about how good you are -- including for artillery guessing how tanks will move so you can lead your shots correctly. While there are activities in life I am good at (and tend to gravitate towards), it was a beneficial experience for me at my age to reinforce the need for continual learning. It was also a good reminder that one can be not that great at something and still have fun at it with someone you care about. That (challenging) WOT experience also helped me be a better employee with a new job going up multiple learning curves in new areas -- in terms of being more patient with my own current limits and also the current limits of others. Even if someone was right all the time, one person can't be everywhere and do more than one or a few things at once. Thus the adage for perfectionists to contemplate of: "The woods would be pretty quiet if no bird sang there but the best." Also, if your wife is right so often because she is a perfectionist, "perfectionism" has its own personal sorrows: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfectionism_(psychology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfectionism_(psychology) Ultimately, a problematical relationship doesn't necessarily mean the people in it are problems. It just means the particular match was challenging and the people involved did not have the skills or circumstance or priorities to make that particular combination of personalities work better. Sometimes skills can be upgraded or circumstances changed or priorities reevaluated. And, sadly sometimes not. The "Ann Landers question" was never "Can you find someone better?" since that is in theory always possible if unlikely, but "Are you better with or without them?" If you have already answered that question (all things considered, including kids) as "with", then hopefully some of the above could help make things a bit better. Good luck with managing the situation as best as possible for the most happiness possible for yourself and your family. And maybe all these ideas are wrong or inappropriate for your situation... :-)