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None of the proposed solutions do anything to actually stop the camera from taking a picture of you. Sure, you'll see the indicator light up for 3 seconds. But

None of the proposed solutions do anything to actually stop the camera from taking a picture of you. Sure, you'll see the indicator light up for 3 seconds. But the attacker still got what they needed. Camera covers have nothing to do with identifying compromise. They are strictly for preventing compromise. This is exactly opposite what a camera indicator light does, and thus the indicator should not be considered a "workaround" for not being able to install a camera cover.

crazygringo 6y ago
This is a great point. This could be solved in software at the OS-level with a permission dialog that popped up every time the camera was asked to be activated (as opposed to an ongoing website permission). Which would be overly annoying for most, but appreciated by a privacy-conscious minority. But unless Apple ever did that (doubtful), once you see the green light it's already too late. It does make me wonder if something like that could ever be done with a kernel extension or similar?
- Aeolun 6y ago
  But that would be hackable, so still not as secure as just covering the camera, which is absolutely foolproof.
- jackson1442 6y ago
  This is something you can use OverSight for, it opens a permission banner each time the camera/mic is accessed, with an option to whitelist apps. https://objective-see.com/products/oversight.html https://objective-see.com/products/oversight.html
- zelon88 6y ago
  Personally I think a hardware switch that disabled the mic and camera is the best route. Engineers would have to be honest in actually connecting the switch directly to the camera rather than resorting to some firmware tom-foolery. Then you could wire the indicator to the switch as a visual reminder that your camera is attached to your PC.
  - tehlike 6y ago
    https://youtu.be/wLmiWPHPqhU?t=250 https://youtu.be/wLmiWPHPqhU?t=250 this might be interesting :)
  - technicaldonut 6y ago
    The HP Spectre x360 line has had physical kill switches to the camera for some time now. I think since the 2018 version. Still waiting for the microphone switch though.
  - teddyh 6y ago
    The Librem laptops and phones from Purism all have such hardware switches.
    - chopin 6y ago
      But only one switch for both camera and mic; I am sitting right in front of one. Better than nothing but not always what you want. Same for for bluetooth and wireless which I find even more unpractical.
- alerighi 6y ago
  It would be annoying as hell. I find annoying having to open the settings to grant the camera permission, if every time I have to make a call I have to give permission to the camera, no way.
lostmyoldone 6y ago
Exactly! Apart from that, I would be absolutely amazed if there isn't at least one failure mode of the led itself that allows the camera to turn on despite no light being emitted. Probably too rare for most people to worry about, but still. I really get why people want a cover, and I think Apple are being a bit disingenuous trying to convince people they don't need one. It's fine they warn about the danger of cracking the screen, but that entire "we protect your privacy spiel" was rather terrible, and also quite misleading as you so clearly pointed out!
ZekeSulastin 6y ago
The proposed solution and criteria at the bottom of the linked page seem to do exactly what everyone in this thread is asking for.
488643689 6y ago
Newer Thinkpads are the only laptops I've seen which bring their own camera shutters. Thinking how often you see people putting tape over their camera, it's quite astonishing build in shutters aren't more common. It's a tiny piece of plastic, costing nothing. Now what I want is a hardware microphone switch, where the off state actually connects to a noise generator.
- fsflover 6y ago
  Purism makes laptops and a phone with kill switches for camera and microphone.
- mappu 6y ago
  >Newer Thinkpads are the only laptops I've seen which bring their own camera shutters. The Huawei Matebook has the camera as a hidden popup under one of the F-keys. The Xiaomi Redmibook goes one step further and omits the camera+mic entirely!

crazygringo 6y ago

This is a great point. This could be solved in software at the OS-level with a permission dialog that popped up every time the camera was asked to be activated (as opposed to an ongoing website permission). Which would be overly annoying for most, but appreciated by a privacy-conscious minority. But unless Apple ever did that (doubtful), once you see the green light it's already too late. It does make me wonder if something like that could ever be done with a kernel extension or similar?

Aeolun 6y ago
But that would be hackable, so still not as secure as just covering the camera, which is absolutely foolproof.
jackson1442 6y ago
This is something you can use OverSight for, it opens a permission banner each time the camera/mic is accessed, with an option to whitelist apps. https://objective-see.com/products/oversight.html https://objective-see.com/products/oversight.html
zelon88 6y ago
Personally I think a hardware switch that disabled the mic and camera is the best route. Engineers would have to be honest in actually connecting the switch directly to the camera rather than resorting to some firmware tom-foolery. Then you could wire the indicator to the switch as a visual reminder that your camera is attached to your PC.
- tehlike 6y ago
  https://youtu.be/wLmiWPHPqhU?t=250 https://youtu.be/wLmiWPHPqhU?t=250 this might be interesting :)
- technicaldonut 6y ago
  The HP Spectre x360 line has had physical kill switches to the camera for some time now. I think since the 2018 version. Still waiting for the microphone switch though.
- teddyh 6y ago
  The Librem laptops and phones from Purism all have such hardware switches.
  - chopin 6y ago
    But only one switch for both camera and mic; I am sitting right in front of one. Better than nothing but not always what you want. Same for for bluetooth and wireless which I find even more unpractical.
alerighi 6y ago
It would be annoying as hell. I find annoying having to open the settings to grant the camera permission, if every time I have to make a call I have to give permission to the camera, no way.

lostmyoldone 6y ago

Exactly! Apart from that, I would be absolutely amazed if there isn't at least one failure mode of the led itself that allows the camera to turn on despite no light being emitted. Probably too rare for most people to worry about, but still. I really get why people want a cover, and I think Apple are being a bit disingenuous trying to convince people they don't need one. It's fine they warn about the danger of cracking the screen, but that entire "we protect your privacy spiel" was rather terrible, and also quite misleading as you so clearly pointed out!

ZekeSulastin 6y ago

The proposed solution and criteria at the bottom of the linked page seem to do exactly what everyone in this thread is asking for.

488643689 6y ago

Newer Thinkpads are the only laptops I've seen which bring their own camera shutters. Thinking how often you see people putting tape over their camera, it's quite astonishing build in shutters aren't more common. It's a tiny piece of plastic, costing nothing. Now what I want is a hardware microphone switch, where the off state actually connects to a noise generator.

fsflover 6y ago
Purism makes laptops and a phone with kill switches for camera and microphone.
mappu 6y ago
>Newer Thinkpads are the only laptops I've seen which bring their own camera shutters. The Huawei Matebook has the camera as a hidden popup under one of the F-keys. The Xiaomi Redmibook goes one step further and omits the camera+mic entirely!