4 ms·

Those people are not speaking - they are doxxing and actively harrassing employers in order to get the wrongthinkers fired. I am sure you know the difference be

Those people are not speaking - they are doxxing and actively harrassing employers in order to get the wrongthinkers fired. I am sure you know the difference between speech and cancel culture.

softwaredoug 6y ago
For the most part, cancel culture has been applied to writing letters criticizing people, boycotting people/companies, and other actions consistent with 'speech'. Of course outright harassment and doxing should be dealt with harshly.
- wait_a_minute 6y ago
  Then it seems we are in agreement. I would guess the one gray area where we do not definitely agree is to what extent deplatforming should be a thing. I am of the view that deplatforming campaigns are a manifestation of cancel culture. What do you think?
  - orwin 6y ago
    I think deplatforming is a mistake in most cases, it make an "US vs THEM", David vs Goliath narrative that people love to follow and identify with. It make people think their opinions are more transgressive and more interesting that they really are. But this deplatforming and this "cancel culture" is only a manifestation of what millenials heard for years: if you want change, vote with your wallet. Well, we now are able to. I'm not agreeing with everything, but boycott is the only power my generation have right now, and nobody can prevent this. Twitter and the social network allow people to explain why they're boycotting this or that, that's all.
    - skinkestek 6y ago
      > But this deplatforming and this "cancel culture" is only a manifestation of what millenials heard for years: if you want change, vote with your wallet. Well, we now are able to. I'm not agreeing with everything, but boycott is the only power my generation have right now, and nobody can prevent this. Twitter and the social network allow people to explain why they're boycotting this or that, that's all. This is a very good explanation of a fair bit of it and if not a lightbulb moment then at least a "wipe the dust of the windshield moment" for me I think. One of those comments that makes me come back to HN even if I seem to be on the other side from you politically.
dragonwriter 6y ago
> Those people are not speaking - they are doxxing and actively harrassing employers in order to get the wrongthinkers fired. So they are both speaking true facts about people and speaking their desired outcome to people positioned to realize them. How is that not speaking?
- loopz 6y ago
  It's opinion, mob rule and destructive, without trying better approaches first, it's toxic, immature and egotistical.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    Perhaps, but it's still pure speech.
    - loopz 6y ago
      Mob rule is assembly. Decisions have consequences and are action.
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        Speech always has consequences (that's rather the point of both speech in general, and the entire concept of free speech in particular: if it had no consequences, there’d be no reason to protect it), and is always a subset of action. Assembly is inseparable from speech which is why, lest the flimsy excuse that a thing is one rather than the other be used to justify a ban, it's wrapped up along with all the other speech-equivalent expressive rights in the first amendment.
        loopz 6y ago
        Some speech is not protected, some speech is judged harshly, all along spectrums. Speech doesn't exist in a vacuum and may be criminal, inorderly, trollish, moderated away, unheard, misinterpreted, untruthful, etc. If there are better approaches, people should be steered in better directions. Sometimes a jolt is needed, but continued bullying is usually on the bully. A bully may also be bullied, but the outcome is rarely educational since some people don't bother to care. Besides, bullying works against socializing. Just action need to follow some due process. Mob rule becomes medieval. Even because modern technology platforms enable despicable behaviour, which speech is part of, does not necessarily protect because of free speech. Freedoms to hurt others need be limited. When people lose interest in the whole, only to fancy duality, there's no dialogue happening, only escalation. Speech doesn't imply much consequence beyond enlightenment, when people learn to listen and appreciate diversity. Speech seems worthless compared to right action. Principles and freedoms mean nothing in isolation.

Those people are not speaking - they are doxxing and actively harrassing employers in order to get the wrongthinkers fired. I am sure you know the difference between speech and cancel culture.

softwaredoug 6y ago

For the most part, cancel culture has been applied to writing letters criticizing people, boycotting people/companies, and other actions consistent with 'speech'. Of course outright harassment and doxing should be dealt with harshly.

wait_a_minute 6y ago
Then it seems we are in agreement. I would guess the one gray area where we do not definitely agree is to what extent deplatforming should be a thing. I am of the view that deplatforming campaigns are a manifestation of cancel culture. What do you think?
- orwin 6y ago
  I think deplatforming is a mistake in most cases, it make an "US vs THEM", David vs Goliath narrative that people love to follow and identify with. It make people think their opinions are more transgressive and more interesting that they really are. But this deplatforming and this "cancel culture" is only a manifestation of what millenials heard for years: if you want change, vote with your wallet. Well, we now are able to. I'm not agreeing with everything, but boycott is the only power my generation have right now, and nobody can prevent this. Twitter and the social network allow people to explain why they're boycotting this or that, that's all.
  - skinkestek 6y ago
    > But this deplatforming and this "cancel culture" is only a manifestation of what millenials heard for years: if you want change, vote with your wallet. Well, we now are able to. I'm not agreeing with everything, but boycott is the only power my generation have right now, and nobody can prevent this. Twitter and the social network allow people to explain why they're boycotting this or that, that's all. This is a very good explanation of a fair bit of it and if not a lightbulb moment then at least a "wipe the dust of the windshield moment" for me I think. One of those comments that makes me come back to HN even if I seem to be on the other side from you politically.

dragonwriter 6y ago

> Those people are not speaking - they are doxxing and actively harrassing employers in order to get the wrongthinkers fired. So they are both speaking true facts about people and speaking their desired outcome to people positioned to realize them. How is that not speaking?

loopz 6y ago
It's opinion, mob rule and destructive, without trying better approaches first, it's toxic, immature and egotistical.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  Perhaps, but it's still pure speech.
  - loopz 6y ago
    Mob rule is assembly. Decisions have consequences and are action.
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      Speech always has consequences (that's rather the point of both speech in general, and the entire concept of free speech in particular: if it had no consequences, there’d be no reason to protect it), and is always a subset of action. Assembly is inseparable from speech which is why, lest the flimsy excuse that a thing is one rather than the other be used to justify a ban, it's wrapped up along with all the other speech-equivalent expressive rights in the first amendment.
      - loopz 6y ago
        Some speech is not protected, some speech is judged harshly, all along spectrums. Speech doesn't exist in a vacuum and may be criminal, inorderly, trollish, moderated away, unheard, misinterpreted, untruthful, etc. If there are better approaches, people should be steered in better directions. Sometimes a jolt is needed, but continued bullying is usually on the bully. A bully may also be bullied, but the outcome is rarely educational since some people don't bother to care. Besides, bullying works against socializing. Just action need to follow some due process. Mob rule becomes medieval. Even because modern technology platforms enable despicable behaviour, which speech is part of, does not necessarily protect because of free speech. Freedoms to hurt others need be limited. When people lose interest in the whole, only to fancy duality, there's no dialogue happening, only escalation. Speech doesn't imply much consequence beyond enlightenment, when people learn to listen and appreciate diversity. Speech seems worthless compared to right action. Principles and freedoms mean nothing in isolation.