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Sorry if I missed something obvious, but if we're at the point where the U.S. government is even contemplating banning TikTok, how come it's on Google and Apple
by orblivion 6y ago
Sorry if I missed something obvious, but if we're at the point where the U.S. government is even contemplating banning TikTok, how come it's on Google and Apple stores at this point? They seem to be at least somewhat vigilant about spyware etc.
- tehwebguy 6y agoApple should remove it for being spyware. Google should remove it for being competition.
- yesplorer 6y ago1. Because the app stores don't serve a single country. 2. People don't use the app store at the pleasure of the US government.
- orblivion 6y agoForget countries and governments. Don't they serve the users, at least to some extent? Forgetting the political issues, there have been multiple spyware scandals here, right? Or did I get the wrong idea? Of course these companies have selfish corporate interests, but I've seen both of these companies show at least _some_ level of care for their users. Even if it's part of keeping up appearances out of concern for their corporate interests.
- yesplorer 6y agoAt this point, no single government has provided a verifiable reason why Tik tok should be banned. if there were verifiable claims, you think Apple and Google will conveniently let them be in their app stores and take the heat for it? What benefit would they get?
- sc11 6y ago> 1. Because the app stores don't serve a single country. There are country-specific Apple app stores and apps that are only available in some countries
- yesplorer 6y agotherefore, see point 2.
- whoisjuan 6y agoChina is Apple's second largest market. They are not removing it from the US App Store unless they are legally obligated to do so. They have no reason to add wood to that fire. Apple's best bet right now with this particular issue is to play neutrality.
- orblivion 6y agoThis answer makes sense, thank you.
- bonestamp2 6y ago> China is Apple's second largest market. At least for now. It's important to note that the Chinese government has a very strong campaign against American phones (and it's working), as backlash against the US for banning Huawei. This is also why Apple is even less likely to do anything to further upset the CCP, not to mention they manufacture the bulk of their products there. But if Apple loses enough market share and/or moves enough production out of China, then they might change their tune as well.
- rvz 6y ago> China is Apple's second largest market. They are not removing it from the US App Store unless they are legally obligated to do so. That's true. However Apple's hands are tied here due to this and they always bend to the side of China. Due to this, they are still being accused of hypocrisy.
- ngold 6y agoTik tok is actual Chinese state owned malware, you think apple would have removed it day one or never let it on their walled garden, since it breaks most apple rules about phone access. Same with the play store.
- geogra4 6y agoAnd those rules are...?
- deleted 6y ago
- time2stop 6y agotiktok is controlled by CCP, don't you know that?
- enitihas 6y agoApple earns a lot of money from China, so difficult for them to do something which irritates the Chinese government. Google behaves the same way, even though they have no income from China right now, but I think they are secretly hopefully of dragonfly.
- sushid 6y agoWhat does dragonfly mean in this context?
- enitihas 6y agoThe secret google search engine that google planned to launch in China which would comply with the great firewall. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonfly_(search_engine) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonfly_(search_engine)
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- linuxftw 6y agoThey don't have to ban it on "Chinese Spyware" terms, they could just ban it on normal "spyware" terms. The fact that tiktok is Chinese is incidental, and not necessarily an indictment on all Chinese apps.
- inetknght 6y agoThat would then create a double standard for all the American Spyware in the app store.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- three_seagrass 6y agoDragonfly was canned after Google employees revolted. I'd be surprised if Google could even get a project like that resourced again without more leaks.
- mrlala 6y agoFrom what I read, I think the issue is people keep claiming it does all this various "spyware" stuff, when it sounds like it's doing nothing that any other app could do, given the (what appear to be) lax permissions of android/ios. If people are so worried about what tiktok can be gathering outside of the app, that is a problem for apple & google. For this, I think it's 100% overblown what people think tiktok is doing. It just doesn't make sense. If it was really some kind of massive spyware, I agree apple/google would be all over this.. but they aren't. This comes down to a lack of trust in China obviously, and I don't think there's anything really more concrete than that.
- orblivion 6y agoThis also makes sense (in addition to another answer that I said made sense). I didn't look much into the spyware scandals. "This app isn't any more spyware than many other popular, accepted apps, and people focused in on this app and made a big deal of it" is believable to me because I've seen it before.
- snazz 6y agoYep, I think you're right. Apple needs to put permissions on things like the clipboard for all apps. I certainly don't support the CCP, but extending that distrust to TikTok is somewhat illogical when there is no good evidence of TikTok doing anything that other apps don't do.
- ngold 6y agoIt was the whole read write access that was a massive violation of apple and googles store policy. It can upload and download whatever to your phone. No other app is even close to allowed that.
- nxc18 6y agoCan you please point to any evidence or source? I've never heard of this happening (beyond what every other app can do in terms of downloading and uploading data) and the wording isn't clear as to what exactly you mean.
- 6y ago
- kevin_thibedeau 6y agoI would like to know what US laws TikTok has violated first.
- jlarocco 6y agoYeah, not to defend Tik-Tok, China, or spyware in general, but it's ironic that nobody has a problem with Google, Facebook, and other American companies tracking everything people do, but when a Chinese company starts doing it, it's suddenly a big problem. But then again, TikTok probably doesn't answer their subpoenas...
- fastball 6y agoYeah the difference is that if FB violates my rights, I have some recourse. Not so if its the CCP.
- everfree 6y agoWhat recourse do you mean, exactly?
- tropdrop 6y agoOne can successfully sue Facebook, etc. for violating privacy rights - https://techcrunch.com/2020/01/29/facebook-will-pay-550-million-to-settle-class-action-lawsuit-over-privacy-violations/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/01/29/facebook-will-pay-550-mill...
- kevin_thibedeau 6y agoThat's great for Illinois citizens. Federal legislators are bought off to prevent this from happening nationally.
- jlarocco 6y agoFacebook had net income over $60 billion dollars in the 5 years that lawsuit was going on. At that rate they can continue violating people's rights indefinitely, so I really don't see the difference.
- dragonwriter 6y ago> if we're at the point where the U.S. government is even contemplating banning TikTok, how come it's on Google and Apple stores at this point? Because the US Government, Google, and Apple share neither leadership nor most strategic goals.
- nemothekid 6y ago>Sorry if I missed something obvious The fact that they aren't doing anything that FB isn't already doing. The beef the USG has is that the CCP will have access to the data, not the fact that they are collecting the data at all. The privacy hawks have been warning about this exact situation and people are now "surprised" when someone gets access to the data that they might not like.
- bigpumpkin 6y agoPerhaps Google and Apple's standard for evidence is higher than the US government's.
- J5892 6y agoAny tracking that TikTok is doing likely doesn't violate the terms of the Google/Apple stores. So removing it from the stores would just be straight up censorship. Note: I'm not defending TikTok in any way here. I personally believe that nobody should be using it.
- hoorayimhelping 6y agoBecause Google and Apple are private entities, and they're not beholden to the government's whims. They have relationships with citizens, who may not necessarily agree with the governments' assertions. And because the government is forced to follow a set of rules for enacting laws. Talk isn't enough to enforce will. I think a better question to ask is, under what authority is the US government talking about banning TikTok? If there are clear security issues, or TikTok or the people running it are in violation of some US law, the onus is on the government to prove it. I haven't seen any proof of this, just a lot of hearsay.
- scarface74 6y agoI doubt the government even has the right to ban an app. If so, could they also ban a website?
- LinuxBender 6y agoYes, if the owner or organization is found to be breaking the law. Malicious domains are seized every day. Here [1] is one of the most recent examples. Some people try to evade this [2] with varying degrees of success. [1] - https://www.msn.com/EN-US/news/technology/microsoft-secretly-seized-domains-used-in-covid-19-themed-email-cyberattacks/ar-BB16rCLe?ocid=FinanceShimLayer https://www.msn.com/EN-US/news/technology/microsoft-secretly... [2] - https://torrentfreak.com/how-to-stop-domain-names-being-seized-by-the-us-government-110205/ https://torrentfreak.com/how-to-stop-domain-names-being-seiz...
- scarface74 6y agoAnd if the domains are registered out of the country?
- LinuxBender 6y agoIt's less about where you register and more about who is managing the root servers you are using. The article I linked touches on that a little bit.
- guuguuguu 6y agogovernment don't need to do anything, they will let google and apple do the work