4 ms·

And who shall be the judge of what is right and what is wrong? An internet mob? If an unknown woman issues a public twitter statement that she's been abused, is

by Aqua 6y ago

And who shall be the judge of what is right and what is wrong? An internet mob? If an unknown woman issues a public twitter statement that she's been abused, is it OK to get the alleged offender cancelled before a court trial? What if they are innocent? How do you un-cancel somebody? You don't. That's why the cancel culture is ridiculous and needs to end.

karpierz 6y ago
Would you like to judge how limited my speech should be? For example, if someone feels me up, should I be allowed to post on Facebook detailing the encounter? Am I allowed to name them? Can I tag their employers? If I read about someone claiming that they've been felt up, can I forward it to my friends? Can I notify my employer if they're working at the same company as me? Essentially, can you determine a line where my freedom to speak ends?
- zimablue 6y ago
  Yeah it ends when you make a statement about someone that accuses them of a crime or otherwise libels them, in the UK at least. If someone has committed a crime, we have courts. We've been doing this for centuries.
  - karpierz 6y ago
    > Yeah it ends when you make a statement about someone that accuses them of a crime Why should I avoid talking about something because it pertains to a criminal proceeding? If I get sexually assaulted, should I avoid reaching out to anyone for support? If a person cheated me out of money during a business transaction, should I avoid calling them out on it? If someone punches me, and the police decide not to press charges, do I avoid warning anyone?
    - GoblinSlayer 6y ago
      Purpose of cancel culture is lynching, and you're not allowed to lynch.
      - karpierz 6y ago
        Can you be more precise by what you mean by lynching? If I retweet a message that says "X assaulted Y" and X ends up fired later, have I participated in a lynching?
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        > Purpose of cancel culture is lynching No, it's not, and saying it is is trivializing lynching. Which, given the political alignment of the people usually arguing the loudest against cancel culture, is unsurprising.
- Proziam 6y ago
  Falsely calling people you don't like evil to cause them harm or for you own economic gain should result in jail time and compensation for the victim. As of now, we're so afraid of stopping people from coming forward that we've allowed those with evil intentions to weaponize our empathy.
  - karpierz 6y ago
    > Falsely calling people you don't like evil to cause them harm or for you own economic gain should result in jail time and compensation for the victim. False speech isn't protected. Also, the parent comment made no claim that the statements made were true or false, just that there were accusation. I don't think that "people shouldn't knowingly lie" is a particularly hard stance on free speech.
    - Proziam 6y ago
      > False speech isn't protected. It is to the extent that it isn't prosecuted as a matter of policy. > Also, the parent comment made no claim that the statements made were true or false, just that there were accusation And I'm saying "No, I think we ought to appropriately punish people who do make false claims" in response to the original question Would you like to judge how limited my speech should be?
      - karpierz 6y ago
        If you want to have a separate conversation on whether false speech is prosecuted in the United States, we can do that. But this isn't really relevant to the discussion at hand, which is how is "cancel culture" at odds with "free speech." > And I'm saying "No, I think we ought to appropriately punish people who do make false claims" in response to the original question "Would you like to judge how limited my speech should be?" Okay, but then you aren't disagreeing with me; just posting a tangential point. In the example posted: > If an unknown woman issues a public twitter statement that she's been abused, is it OK to get the alleged offender cancelled before a court trial? There's no indication that the claims are false, and if they are false, that the people making the claims aren't punished. All it asks is "is it okay to share information about an accusation, even if you aren't certain it's true?"
tw04 6y ago
So do you have an example of someone being accused by one anonymous twitter user of sexual assault and subsequently had their career and life ruined?
- themacguffinman 6y ago
  How about a truck driver that was accused of racism by a Twitter rando and was quickly fired from his job? https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/sdge-worker-fired-over-alleged-racist-gesture-says-he-was-cracking-knuckles/2347414/ https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/sdge-worker-fired-ove...

by Aqua 6y ago

karpierz 6y ago

Would you like to judge how limited my speech should be? For example, if someone feels me up, should I be allowed to post on Facebook detailing the encounter? Am I allowed to name them? Can I tag their employers? If I read about someone claiming that they've been felt up, can I forward it to my friends? Can I notify my employer if they're working at the same company as me? Essentially, can you determine a line where my freedom to speak ends?

zimablue 6y ago
Yeah it ends when you make a statement about someone that accuses them of a crime or otherwise libels them, in the UK at least. If someone has committed a crime, we have courts. We've been doing this for centuries.
- karpierz 6y ago
  > Yeah it ends when you make a statement about someone that accuses them of a crime Why should I avoid talking about something because it pertains to a criminal proceeding? If I get sexually assaulted, should I avoid reaching out to anyone for support? If a person cheated me out of money during a business transaction, should I avoid calling them out on it? If someone punches me, and the police decide not to press charges, do I avoid warning anyone?
  - GoblinSlayer 6y ago
    Purpose of cancel culture is lynching, and you're not allowed to lynch.
    - karpierz 6y ago
      Can you be more precise by what you mean by lynching? If I retweet a message that says "X assaulted Y" and X ends up fired later, have I participated in a lynching?
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > Purpose of cancel culture is lynching No, it's not, and saying it is is trivializing lynching. Which, given the political alignment of the people usually arguing the loudest against cancel culture, is unsurprising.
Proziam 6y ago
Falsely calling people you don't like evil to cause them harm or for you own economic gain should result in jail time and compensation for the victim. As of now, we're so afraid of stopping people from coming forward that we've allowed those with evil intentions to weaponize our empathy.
- karpierz 6y ago
  > Falsely calling people you don't like evil to cause them harm or for you own economic gain should result in jail time and compensation for the victim. False speech isn't protected. Also, the parent comment made no claim that the statements made were true or false, just that there were accusation. I don't think that "people shouldn't knowingly lie" is a particularly hard stance on free speech.
  - Proziam 6y ago
    > False speech isn't protected. It is to the extent that it isn't prosecuted as a matter of policy. > Also, the parent comment made no claim that the statements made were true or false, just that there were accusation And I'm saying "No, I think we ought to appropriately punish people who do make false claims" in response to the original question Would you like to judge how limited my speech should be?
    - karpierz 6y ago
      If you want to have a separate conversation on whether false speech is prosecuted in the United States, we can do that. But this isn't really relevant to the discussion at hand, which is how is "cancel culture" at odds with "free speech." > And I'm saying "No, I think we ought to appropriately punish people who do make false claims" in response to the original question "Would you like to judge how limited my speech should be?" Okay, but then you aren't disagreeing with me; just posting a tangential point. In the example posted: > If an unknown woman issues a public twitter statement that she's been abused, is it OK to get the alleged offender cancelled before a court trial? There's no indication that the claims are false, and if they are false, that the people making the claims aren't punished. All it asks is "is it okay to share information about an accusation, even if you aren't certain it's true?"

tw04 6y ago

So do you have an example of someone being accused by one anonymous twitter user of sexual assault and subsequently had their career and life ruined?

themacguffinman 6y ago
How about a truck driver that was accused of racism by a Twitter rando and was quickly fired from his job? https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/sdge-worker-fired-over-alleged-racist-gesture-says-he-was-cracking-knuckles/2347414/ https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/sdge-worker-fired-ove...