4 ms·

Teachers union corruption looks a lot different for sure and is likely less insidious but there are lots of examples of problems. From teacher protection claus

Teachers union corruption looks a lot different for sure and is likely less insidious but there are lots of examples of problems. From teacher protection clauses that mean teachers who aren’t legally able to teach being retained to opposition to any pension reform in bankrupt states. I’m certainly not anti-union but I lump teachers unions in with police unions and the teamsters as cautionary tales of their downsides.

fallingfrog 6y ago
Fighting for a decent pension is a legitimate thing for a union to fight for. Fighting to be able to murder with impunity is not. Teachers are notoriously underpaid, and there is a lot of pressure to convert the school system to charter schools in order to bust the unions. Meanwhile administrative costs skyrocket every year. There’s a lot wrong with our school system but I don’t think teachers unions are one of them. Paying teachers even less is not the way forward.
- kasey_junk 6y ago
  Fighting for a pension is of course a legitimate union activity. It’s equally legitimately to state that one way unions become problematic is when their demands are not financially viable and are in fact part of the problem fiscally.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    I don’t consider it legitimate because of the proven conflicts of interests involved in taxpayer funded defined benefit pensions. The math can be fudged to purposely understate costs, never mind the fact that predicting that far into the future is impossible. So you have politicians with an interest in keeping taxes low in the short term to get re elected, you have union bosses who are older and also don’t care about fudged numbers way into the future, since they will be getting theirs before shit hits the fan. The people screwed are future generations of taxpayers and benefit recipients who have to accept cuts to their benefits. Cash remuneration works for everyone else, if the union members want an annuity, they can negotiate for higher cash pay and then go purchase an annuity from an insurance company. I don’t want my kids to pay for labor that was performed today just so can pay artificially low taxes.
  - bluGill 6y ago
    I'm fine with them fighting for one. However their incentive needs to include ensuring that the pension fund actually has enough money in it to cover the future payouts.
- gowld 6y ago
  Teacher pay is highly variable. Teachers are usually paid above median for their local community.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

fallingfrog 6y ago

Fighting for a decent pension is a legitimate thing for a union to fight for. Fighting to be able to murder with impunity is not. Teachers are notoriously underpaid, and there is a lot of pressure to convert the school system to charter schools in order to bust the unions. Meanwhile administrative costs skyrocket every year. There’s a lot wrong with our school system but I don’t think teachers unions are one of them. Paying teachers even less is not the way forward.

kasey_junk 6y ago
Fighting for a pension is of course a legitimate union activity. It’s equally legitimately to state that one way unions become problematic is when their demands are not financially viable and are in fact part of the problem fiscally.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  I don’t consider it legitimate because of the proven conflicts of interests involved in taxpayer funded defined benefit pensions. The math can be fudged to purposely understate costs, never mind the fact that predicting that far into the future is impossible. So you have politicians with an interest in keeping taxes low in the short term to get re elected, you have union bosses who are older and also don’t care about fudged numbers way into the future, since they will be getting theirs before shit hits the fan. The people screwed are future generations of taxpayers and benefit recipients who have to accept cuts to their benefits. Cash remuneration works for everyone else, if the union members want an annuity, they can negotiate for higher cash pay and then go purchase an annuity from an insurance company. I don’t want my kids to pay for labor that was performed today just so can pay artificially low taxes.
- bluGill 6y ago
  I'm fine with them fighting for one. However their incentive needs to include ensuring that the pension fund actually has enough money in it to cover the future payouts.
gowld 6y ago
Teacher pay is highly variable. Teachers are usually paid above median for their local community.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]