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As a kid, I was able to figure out limewire, Emule, torrents and I'm sure kids today will be able to download a free vpn or use similar tools I used as a pretee

As a kid, I was able to figure out limewire, Emule, torrents and I'm sure kids today will be able to download a free vpn or use similar tools I used as a preteen to figure out how to circumvent these pointless blocks. I started with free video samples and only moved onto methods by high school to get access to premium websites. As a human, our strength is not only the ability to do these things but to also teach others to do it. I was able to help my friends to get access as well. If one ape discovered fire it would die with them, but our ability to spread information, like a virus is what gives humanity intelligence. One kid like me at school is all it takes to make this stupid law useless. Adult websites want brownie points and also don't like nonpayers, but mess with their revenue and you'll get a push back.

deleted 6y ago
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raxxorrax 6y ago
A mistake many people do. Maybe there are people now wary of children being subjected to certain content on the net. They are forgetting at least three things: They also were exposed and survived just fine Their kids are probably going to be better with tech at some point. The vast majority of pornographic content is available without being on the market which makes regulation nearly impossible. Yes, you can maybe attack the platforms hosting it, but I don't see this going anywhere. You would punish commercial distribution on push other content underground. Many in porn are already directly financed by their viewers. Wasn't the Australia block circumvented within 24h by a ~14-year old kid? Some people suggested to make brushing teeth illegal so that kids do it in secret in a dark corner.
- yomly 6y ago
  I agree - for many of people(including teens) circumventing restrictions is part of the thrill. That said I do think there has been an escalation of porn over the years. It's really apparent when you look at things from the 70s. Though apparently banning porn from cinemas shifted content to more "trashy" VHS/DVD/Online videos I feel data-driven analytics has probably accelerated this, like a race to the bottom (pun unintended). Extremity probably drives engagement so the porn kids are exposed to today is much more extreme than what we may have been as up and coming internet users.
  - Tainnor 6y ago
    Like with certain drugs, I think it's perfectly possible to acknowledge the potential issues with excessive porn consumption (or with certain kinds of porn) while still thinking that it's not uniformly bad if consumed in moderation.
    - yomly 6y ago
      Yeah you're right. Just because I would never touch crystal meth doesn't mean I should therefore stand in the way of people using cannabis recreationally (or even medically). So yeah I guess it comes back to education rather than prohibition...
      - richthegeek 6y ago
        But it is something like a person selling both weed and meth next to each other, without any communication or acknowledgement that one is significantly more likely to cause harm.
        vladvasiliu 6y ago
        Maybe. I propose that it's a question of context. If pot were legal, maybe people would be happy to get high on that at stop there. I think there are two issues at play, both going in the same direction. 1. If buying pot is going to carry the same risk as buying meth, and I can get higher for the same quantity of meth (I assume meth is more potent per unit of volume) it would make some sense for me to try to get meth, or at the very least to be interested when someone offers, especially if I'm not 100% sure when I'll be able to buy more pot. 2. There is also a question of trust. If the government says pot is as bad as meth (both schedule 1, I hear about big police operations taking down pot dealers, etc) they I might believe them. After all, what do I know? I just want to get high. So when I get to try some pot, see that I like it, see many people smoking pot without much harm, I figure I might as well try some meth. Especially given point 1 above.
      - dpwm 6y ago
        Part of the problem is that the education is left to less reputable corners of the web. There is quite a lot of anecdotal evidence of the damage that can be done by abuse of internet porn. I could add to that. But we have those with credentials who have made a good career out of attacking the very notion that porn can be harmful or can be abused. I'm not saying it's shilling, it could just be success by contrarianism, but it's still rather invalidating. If you are in a position where you think porn is doing you harm, it probably is. But one of the first things you find if you go down that path is that information tends to be on the extremes.
- johnchristopher 6y ago
  > They also were exposed and survived just fine A lot didn't though. Exposure (regular or casual) to porn at a young age has some long lasting consequences. Survivorship bias. These things don't exist in a vacuum, they shape our culture. > Their kids are probably going to be better with tech at some point. Hmmm. I know it's from personal experience but I think the vast majority of kids don't care about tech. It's 2020. I already heard that as a kid in the 90's (you are all tech genius ! born with it !) and plenty of 20-30 are still as dumb with computers as my peers were back then. Now, indeed, it's way easier to access porn these days than back then or even 15 years ago. > Wasn't the Australia block circumvented within 24h by a ~14-year old kid? That kid is an exception, not the norm. Most will use some kind of solution recommended by their peers and that's how we end up with "streaming website" installing malwares all over the place. It's easier for people to click on a website to watch their shows than going to a torrent site (or whatever tech is used these days to share movies and tv shows).
  - Kaveren 6y ago
    >Exposure (regular or casual) to porn at a young age has some long lasting consequences. Survivorship bias. [citation needed]
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - johnchristopher 6y ago
      Fair enough, I thought about changing `can` to `may` but I forgot it wouldn't fly on HN ^^. > Research into associations between use or non-use of condoms and consumption of pornography among adolescents varies. Some studies found that the use of pornography was associated with non-condom use for both gay (Arrington-Sanders et al., 2015) and heterosexual (Braun-Courville & Rojas, 2009; Luder et al., 2011) male adolescents, yet was not the case for female adolescents (Luder et al., 2011). One study from the Netherlands, which asked adolescents about their sexual practices and pornography use repeatedly over time, did not find an association between pornography use and condomless sex (Peter & Valkenburg, 2011c). These associations may differ depending on the content of pornographies they consume, particularly between gay and heterosexual male adolescents, as gay pornography has a much higher rate of condom use (condomless sex represents a substantial minority of gay pornographies) than heterosexual pornography (condomless sex is the overwhelming majority of content). In addition, the relative cultural context of sexuality education and condom use is also important here (i.e., in the Netherlands sexuality education is more comprehensive and attentive to issues of gender and consent in general than in Australia, see Bell, 2009). https://aifs.gov.au/publications/effects-pornography-children-and-young-people#partb https://aifs.gov.au/publications/effects-pornography-childre... and https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6352245/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6352245/ I let you follow the trails from there, just stay away from netnanny like and sexual addicts support websites as they are promoting a very specific agenda and framing things in a certain way.
- HelloNurse 6y ago
  How many people will switch from porn sites to curated collections of porn on file sharing networks or from friends?
  - Kaveren 6y ago
    Absolutely none, people will just use a VPN or TOR.
    - viraptor 6y ago
      Before that they'll use simpler methods. Twitter and Reddit have all the categories you'd ever need. And they won't get blocked / filtered for technical reasons.
    - HelloNurse 6y ago
      For the purpose of access to porn, paying for a VPN is quite similar to paying for a porn site account: not a popular choice, even if it makes sense.
- globular-toast 6y ago
  > They also were exposed and survived just fine That remains to be seen really. Internet porn is a completely different thing to finding a porn mag in a bush one day. The kids who have grown up with easily accessible internet porn are only just reaching maturity. We already know that birth rates are decreasing, sperm rates are decreasing, impotence in young, health men is increasing, single mothers are increasing. It doesn't bode well. Speaking from experience I think access to internet porn is hugely damaging for young men. Men are naturally polygamous and want to mate with as many women as possible. Porn provides a simulation of that but with instant gratification and no concern for feelings of another person and all that stuff that comes along with a real relationship. Many men are finding that having sex with a single woman of average attractiveness just doesn't cut it. But I have no idea what to do about it barring maybe a full Butlerian Jihad style expunction.
  - raducu 6y ago
    "Many men are finding that having sex with a single woman of average attractiveness just doesn't cut it." Given that ~30% of young men are sexless and only ~15% of young women are sexless in the previous year, that just reeks of 3d wave feminism bullshit. Just as men are polyamorous, women are hypergamous, but nobody dares try to limit that. If we want normal birthrates and normal involvment from young men, we should: eliminate tax havens, tax, tax and tax some more owning more than one house, eliminate education borrowing, have affordable/public healthcare and education. Have a hard, data driven look of the population self-sustainability of cities, and tax cities that benefit from influx of population, and use that money to develop areas that have higher birth rates.
    - raxxorrax 6y ago
      Both suggestions from both of you don't fit with my observations at all. People that do actually found families are overwhelmingly faithful in monogamous relationships, complete penguin style with house, dog and kids. Yes, yes, of course every second couple has a secret BDSM-basement and countless affairs... or maybe not. I think the evolutionary explanation we often hear are mostly horseshit to be honest and wouldn't even make sense since humans need decades to mature. The only trend I see is that people not married by 30 mostly aren't going to do it later and in many cases the men and women don't even want a relationship anymore. The sudden decision of settling down after having countless relationships is certainly a lifestyle lie to yourself and others. Just accept that marriage might not be for you, which is completely fine. Contrary to popular belief there is no pope forcing you to marry anyone. Some say there is societal pressure, but your mom and dad aren't society. Maybe these impressions actually do stem from porn although I don't really believe that either. Lifestyle choice seem to be primarily influenced by class and education. Maybe porn consumption is too, but I doubt it.
- kiba 6y ago
  Their kids are probably going to be better with tech at some point. Are they? Just because a kid uses snapchat and their iphones a lot doesn't meant they're technically savy. Really, what distinguish a technical person from a "normal" person is a certain fearlessness when it comes to technology.
  - raxxorrax 6y ago
    Well, true that certain systems hinder you in becoming proficient with software, even if these are called "accessibility features". But if there is a goal I am sure they will get crafty pretty quickly.
  - globular-toast 6y ago
    Agreed. We all grew up with books but few of us know anything about printing and binding.
  - dhosek 6y ago
    I've seen exactly that fearlessness with my six-year old twins when they get a hold of my phone or iPad. They've found features I didn't even know existed. They also are really adaptable. My wife, who is used to using either her iPad or her surface for computing has, despite a much longer span of using mouse/trackpad driven selection, developed a hard to break habit of tapping the screen on my MacBook. My kids, when we switched them to the MacBook for their virtual class meetings, adapted to using the trackpad without a moment's hesitation. They were also infinitely better than any of my co-workers have been about muting/unmuting themselves appropriately during videoconferences, as have their classmates. They're just learning to read still but once they've unlocked that achievement, I can only imagine what they'll be capable of doing.
    - wizzwizz4 6y ago
      Hijacking the thread to say: make sure they've got access to something with exposed innards. Windows is enough of a patched-together mess that it's a good candidate (I'd argue it's better (more messy) now than it was when I cut my teeth on it), but a 'nix with systemd, a web server or a low-voltage electronics kit would do nicely.
- watwut 6y ago
  > Their kids are probably going to be better with tech at some point. For all the anecdotes about kids overcoming this or that technical, majority of kids has astonishingly little knowledge.
  - dhosek 6y ago
    But kids pass information around when there's motivation. When I was in high school, I didn't have a computer or access to BBS sites, but I had friends who did and that's how, for example, I ended up with an 800 number I could use to make free long distance calls and a binder full of Apple ][ software.
- jacobr 6y ago
  > They also were exposed and survived just fine Most people also survived driving without a seatbelt before it became illegal. Just because something is not dangerous or damaging in 100% of cases does not mean it’s not problematic or should not be made slightly less convenient to access. That prevention is not 100% effective also does not mean it will have 0 positive effect. I’m still against age filters like this though, because they tend to also block access to legitimate sex education and info about HBT issues that can be life saving for teenagers.
- pc86 6y ago
  Nobody is subjected to anything online. You choose what you receive.
  - partomniscient 6y ago
    Actually, there's a really good example that disproves this in this video on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
    - gridlockd 6y ago
      That doesn't disprove it. A random link on the internet is understood to be Schrödinger's Porn. A random link to YouTube, on the other hand, is a much more family-friendly Schrödinger's RickRoll.
      - partomniscient 6y ago
        >A random link to YouTube, on the other hand, is a much more family-friendly Schrödinger's RickRoll. Except when it's not. The only way to find out is to open the box. Er, I mean click the link. Others may be people that somehow 'peeked in that box' enough times they didn't want to do it again and their local memory has stored the URL and associated it with a negative outcome. URL shortener's totally destroy that learnt ability. There's kind of a reason people came up with the term "risky click of the day" and now there's 'NSFL' (Not Safe For Life), which is extremely worrying. Anyway, I got upvoted which means it still worked, and I got to legitimitely rickroll someone on HN and they appreciated the lesson. Woohoo. One of the problems with the software engineers solution to these kinds of problems is that create a plugin that checks whether the url resolves to the rickroll video or not. The problem is definitely solved, but now the computer/browser is slower for everyday use. Also the problem is still easily recreatable at a different level of abstraction. (e.g. aforementioned URL shorteners or copying the rickroll video to another location) <-- this is the really hard problem to solve and we haven't even used encryption yet. When it reaches the level of the politicians 'protect the children' where its about votes and appearing to do the right thing but none of the people understand the implementation problems and we discuss the absurdity of it on HN. You do however get to be technically correct. It's not a proof. It's more like circumstantial evidence in experiential form.
- Ghjklov 6y ago
  Do you know what porn today is like? There's so much of it and a lot of it is highly stimulating, full of interesting and unattainable-in-real-life kinks. Maybe you were exposed, but it was not likely as accessible as it is for kids/people now. Unless you have experienced the pit of despair, going through porn addiction, it's easy to think that people are going to survive it fine just like we did. A lot of people can enjoy a healthy amount of porn and then move on from it because they were able to get a real life partner or something. Many are destroyed by it, because they have no other option and simply go downhill from there. But it's true, you can't just ban it either. That's definitely what I'm not asking for.
- shanecleveland 6y ago
  You’re focused just on those looking to circumvent these blocks knowingly. Where there’s a will, there is a way, no doubt. I recently had an elementary-grade child stumble upon pornhub through a google search. I am ultimately responsible for this, and we now have more than one content filtering service in place, including one we pay for. I don’t think it is too much to ask to have those who want to view this content to be the ones who have to jump through hoops. I’m not that old, and the ease of access to adult content is much greater than when I was my childrens’ ages. The fact that it is so easy now and that technology is so ingrained in their everyday lives makes it that much more important to creat safe spaces for them.
- sansowari 6y ago
  My hypothesis is just that they don't want to legalize selling pornography to teenagers, because teenagers are so horny that they'd become a big market for porn (sort of like they're a big market for casual-mobile gacha games) and then pornographers would start making porn targeted at teenagers. Which, uh.
- nefasti 6y ago
  I have a porn addiction since I was 14, not really fine.
  - Waterfall 6y ago
    https://pmohackbook.org/ https://pmohackbook.org/ This helped me.
- Grustaf 6y ago
  The amount and type of porn available now is completely different from what we grew up with, there’s no comparison at all.
  - vorpalhex 6y ago
    Does a greater amount of more varied type somehow make it more damaging? I should point out that very explicit pornographic content that is now taboo in our society including bestiality, incest, and so on has existed for thousands of years. I'd much rather my kids be looking at pornhub than some of the things the Greeks and Romans were making...
    - Grustaf 6y ago
      What “exists” is not very relevant, the difference is that when i was a kid you’d have to steal a magazine from a shop and it would have a bunch of photos of naked women, sometimes having sex. Now endless amounts of porn is available at the click of a button, of course that’s much worse.
- sizzle 6y ago
  "They also were exposed and survived just fine" That's true and all but I wouldn't downplay the devastating effects of pornography addiction during adolescence through college and into adult life and how this unfettered all-access pass to sexual media can start to effect your social life and education negatively when your prefrontal cortex is constantly lit up to get that sweet dopamine fix from moving pixels on a screen. Why go out into the real world and put in the work to be rewarded in the flesh when you can get 10x the novelty and fantasy of anything you desire at the click of a button? (generally speaking). Our brains never evolved to handle the onslaught of readily available hyper-pleasurable vices (e.g. drugs, alcohol, social media likes, porn, etc) that create positive, self-reinforcing neural pathways for addiction that are extremely hard to extinguish on your own and offer you an escape from reality and discomfort. Not saying everyone experiences this, but it seems irresponsible to let young kids create and reinforce these addiction pathways in their reward centers of their brain before their brain and pre-frontal cortex is fully developed in their 20's. I know I struggle with this stuff from an early age after stumbling on magazines and VHS cassettes at a too young age to understand what this was doing to my young brain now looking back, the hooks have set in deep.
- arnoooooo 6y ago
  There's plenty of scientific evidence to suggest that porn is not that great : https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/relevant-research-and-articles-about-the-studies/ https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/relevant-research-and-articl...
- Waterfall 6y ago
  I actually think that porn can have a detrimental effect on people, not permanent, but also not always the best. Will government regulation fix it? No. Kids now are having less sex, they are more isolated, and males are now having way less sex in general, so what fills in the place? Porn. If you get rid of porn and not have any changes in society, they will not magically go away. If you or a loved one has a problem with porn: https://pmohackbook.org/ https://pmohackbook.org/ The teeth brushing thing is funny there was an onion video that said smoking is gay. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82x9pzHkHK4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82x9pzHkHK4
riffraff 6y ago
I mean, before the internet kids were generally not allowed to buy porn, and yet I remember we managed to get VHS, games, magazines, and even erotic comics as minors.
mytailorisrich 6y ago
In most countries pornography is restricted to people over 18 by law. This was not too difficult to enforce when access was mostly in person, but it has become difficult now that access is mostly online. If society agrees that young people below a certain age should not have access to pornography then it is reasonable, even necessary, to try to implement ways to enforce that restriction online.
- randomchars 6y ago
  Alcohol and cigarettes are restricted to people above 18/21 in most places. Yet somehow I see 14-15 year olds drinking and smoking (even weed, which is illegal). I think I first saw a porn magazine before I was 10. Where there's a will, there's a way. You can't use technology for this, because there will always be a will, so they'll ALWAYS find a way.
  - nocitrek 6y ago
    The point is that proportion of young adults that will access to porn will change from 100% to ~25%. Of course people will find a way, but the question is how much effort will they put in before they give up. If the effort barrier is too high, you will cull off some people - the purpose of this legislation.
    - randomchars 6y ago
      Why would it change? It's not like officially not being able buy alcohol stops anyone who wants to drink from drinking. We can pretend that this is the biggest danger that people under 18 face, but let's be real, much worse things can happen to them, than watching porn. This shouldn't be solved at the government level, but at the family level. By parents talking to kids. Also, unless they implement something like the PRC's firewall, it will a 100% be an inept solution that's easy to get around.
      - nocitrek 6y ago
        I think many men today have their brains altered from watching too much excessive porn. Fetishes develop and normal healthy relationships become problematic due to performance issues. There are many worse thing than porn, yes, but to be healthy well rounded adult, it does not help (at least excessive). Family can help, but some topics are taboo in many families, especially when man ego is in question. If you could not statisfy your wife, would you speak with your mother for help? Yes, you can say it should start from young age, but both parents are at work and kids are left with high-speed internet and tablets. They react positively to porn and can get addicted - its a single click away. Hard to prevent that, eh. I think we will witness the true effect of porn on males mind in future.
onion2k 6y ago
Adult websites want brownie points and also don't like nonpayers, but mess with their revenue and you'll get a push back. There's basically one company that runs all the major porn sites (Mindgeek). That company was going to be provider of the age verification system the UK government looked in to that's now been scrapped. The company also sells a VPN for circumventing blockers including the age verification systems. It's really a brilliant three-sided-market business. The problem is that a lot people expect porn to be free now, because there are so many free videos it's enough for all but the most dedicate porn watcher. This move has nothing do with "protecting children" and everything to do with the porn industry realising that they've given their product away for so long that the best way they can make money now is by lobbying governments to make people pay again.
- rapnie 6y ago
  Idk, but assume they could also make a good buck from selling the data they collect?
louthy 6y ago
Interestingly, it seems if one politician discovers fire, it would die with them. Surely, by now, one politician has learned how technology works and has started the process of teaching others?
- tehbeard 6y ago
  Your assumption relies on politicians working cooperatively rather than as sock puppets for whichever interest has the most "donations".
  - wizzwizz4 6y ago
    Some politicians, like some journalists, have integrity. There are high pressures on both to not have integrity, and yet they persist.
DanBC 6y ago
People on HN always seem to misunderstand the point of these measures. They're not there to make it impossible for anyone under the age of 18 to ever see pornographic content. They exist to make sure that porn isn't pushed at children who don't want to see it. It wasn't that long ago that pornographic ads were common on some ad networks or in email spam. It's this accidental stumbling upon porn that the measures aim to stop. The blocks are always described in the strongest possible terms by the politicians pushing them because: 1) It makes the public think politicians are taking strong action against poor behaviour 2) It gives the politicians a stronger bargaining position: implement good voluntary age restrictions or we'll put in place a stupid filter.
- randomchars 6y ago
  Where is porn pushed onto anyone in the internet now? I don't think I seen anything remotely porn-like without looking for it.
  - srean 6y ago
    Quite common if you were to watch a movie online for free. Not on Amazon Prime or Netflix of course, but not all movies that I am interested in is available on Netflix, Amazon Prime in my region.
    - randomchars 6y ago
      You mean those streaming sites, where the page is 3/4 advertisements? Yeah, I image those have porn ads, but adblock helps there too.
      - walls 6y ago
        I also do not see them being the kind of sites to comply with something like this.
    - GoblinSlayer 6y ago
      Streaming is cancer, block all streaming sites, especially Netflix.
threatofrain 6y ago
If you make chocolate milk just a little harder to reach, kids at scale will be reaching for it less, and we're just talking about chocolate milk. You make returning your product just a few minutes harder and fewer people will be getting their money back.
Fernicia 6y ago
Well similarly, I can access BBC iPlayer from outside the U.K. too. It takes reconnecting to a VPN several times and streaming over a patchy connection, but I can do it. Does that make the BBC's geolocking pointless? No, because most people can't and even I am discouraged to do it because the experience is such a hassle. And in this case even the kids who can access porn: making it difficult enough that their 12 year old selves can't but their 15 year old selves can is a success. Or making it something they can plan out, but not do in the spur of the moment is also a success.
mtnGoat 6y ago
Umm. In fact, most adult site revenue comes from non-payers, they view ads and help keep that count up. If they are allowing Chinese traffic (and most do), they'll take anything.
sosborn 6y ago
My opinion as a father of two: Putting up roadblocks to accessing these materials is good. Some things really are damaging to young minds. However, I'm not stupid. At some point they will get exposed to this stuff and if my children put in the effort to learn how to bypass those roadblocks, then great, at least they learned something in the process.

deleted 6y ago

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raxxorrax 6y ago

A mistake many people do. Maybe there are people now wary of children being subjected to certain content on the net. They are forgetting at least three things: They also were exposed and survived just fine Their kids are probably going to be better with tech at some point. The vast majority of pornographic content is available without being on the market which makes regulation nearly impossible. Yes, you can maybe attack the platforms hosting it, but I don't see this going anywhere. You would punish commercial distribution on push other content underground. Many in porn are already directly financed by their viewers. Wasn't the Australia block circumvented within 24h by a ~14-year old kid? Some people suggested to make brushing teeth illegal so that kids do it in secret in a dark corner.

yomly 6y ago
I agree - for many of people(including teens) circumventing restrictions is part of the thrill. That said I do think there has been an escalation of porn over the years. It's really apparent when you look at things from the 70s. Though apparently banning porn from cinemas shifted content to more "trashy" VHS/DVD/Online videos I feel data-driven analytics has probably accelerated this, like a race to the bottom (pun unintended). Extremity probably drives engagement so the porn kids are exposed to today is much more extreme than what we may have been as up and coming internet users.
- Tainnor 6y ago
  Like with certain drugs, I think it's perfectly possible to acknowledge the potential issues with excessive porn consumption (or with certain kinds of porn) while still thinking that it's not uniformly bad if consumed in moderation.
  - yomly 6y ago
    Yeah you're right. Just because I would never touch crystal meth doesn't mean I should therefore stand in the way of people using cannabis recreationally (or even medically). So yeah I guess it comes back to education rather than prohibition...
    - richthegeek 6y ago
      But it is something like a person selling both weed and meth next to each other, without any communication or acknowledgement that one is significantly more likely to cause harm.
      - vladvasiliu 6y ago
        Maybe. I propose that it's a question of context. If pot were legal, maybe people would be happy to get high on that at stop there. I think there are two issues at play, both going in the same direction. 1. If buying pot is going to carry the same risk as buying meth, and I can get higher for the same quantity of meth (I assume meth is more potent per unit of volume) it would make some sense for me to try to get meth, or at the very least to be interested when someone offers, especially if I'm not 100% sure when I'll be able to buy more pot. 2. There is also a question of trust. If the government says pot is as bad as meth (both schedule 1, I hear about big police operations taking down pot dealers, etc) they I might believe them. After all, what do I know? I just want to get high. So when I get to try some pot, see that I like it, see many people smoking pot without much harm, I figure I might as well try some meth. Especially given point 1 above.
    - dpwm 6y ago
      Part of the problem is that the education is left to less reputable corners of the web. There is quite a lot of anecdotal evidence of the damage that can be done by abuse of internet porn. I could add to that. But we have those with credentials who have made a good career out of attacking the very notion that porn can be harmful or can be abused. I'm not saying it's shilling, it could just be success by contrarianism, but it's still rather invalidating. If you are in a position where you think porn is doing you harm, it probably is. But one of the first things you find if you go down that path is that information tends to be on the extremes.
johnchristopher 6y ago
> They also were exposed and survived just fine A lot didn't though. Exposure (regular or casual) to porn at a young age has some long lasting consequences. Survivorship bias. These things don't exist in a vacuum, they shape our culture. > Their kids are probably going to be better with tech at some point. Hmmm. I know it's from personal experience but I think the vast majority of kids don't care about tech. It's 2020. I already heard that as a kid in the 90's (you are all tech genius ! born with it !) and plenty of 20-30 are still as dumb with computers as my peers were back then. Now, indeed, it's way easier to access porn these days than back then or even 15 years ago. > Wasn't the Australia block circumvented within 24h by a ~14-year old kid? That kid is an exception, not the norm. Most will use some kind of solution recommended by their peers and that's how we end up with "streaming website" installing malwares all over the place. It's easier for people to click on a website to watch their shows than going to a torrent site (or whatever tech is used these days to share movies and tv shows).
- Kaveren 6y ago
  >Exposure (regular or casual) to porn at a young age has some long lasting consequences. Survivorship bias. [citation needed]
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - johnchristopher 6y ago
    Fair enough, I thought about changing `can` to `may` but I forgot it wouldn't fly on HN ^^. > Research into associations between use or non-use of condoms and consumption of pornography among adolescents varies. Some studies found that the use of pornography was associated with non-condom use for both gay (Arrington-Sanders et al., 2015) and heterosexual (Braun-Courville & Rojas, 2009; Luder et al., 2011) male adolescents, yet was not the case for female adolescents (Luder et al., 2011). One study from the Netherlands, which asked adolescents about their sexual practices and pornography use repeatedly over time, did not find an association between pornography use and condomless sex (Peter & Valkenburg, 2011c). These associations may differ depending on the content of pornographies they consume, particularly between gay and heterosexual male adolescents, as gay pornography has a much higher rate of condom use (condomless sex represents a substantial minority of gay pornographies) than heterosexual pornography (condomless sex is the overwhelming majority of content). In addition, the relative cultural context of sexuality education and condom use is also important here (i.e., in the Netherlands sexuality education is more comprehensive and attentive to issues of gender and consent in general than in Australia, see Bell, 2009). https://aifs.gov.au/publications/effects-pornography-children-and-young-people#partb https://aifs.gov.au/publications/effects-pornography-childre... and https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6352245/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6352245/ I let you follow the trails from there, just stay away from netnanny like and sexual addicts support websites as they are promoting a very specific agenda and framing things in a certain way.
HelloNurse 6y ago
How many people will switch from porn sites to curated collections of porn on file sharing networks or from friends?
- Kaveren 6y ago
  Absolutely none, people will just use a VPN or TOR.
  - viraptor 6y ago
    Before that they'll use simpler methods. Twitter and Reddit have all the categories you'd ever need. And they won't get blocked / filtered for technical reasons.
  - HelloNurse 6y ago
    For the purpose of access to porn, paying for a VPN is quite similar to paying for a porn site account: not a popular choice, even if it makes sense.
globular-toast 6y ago
> They also were exposed and survived just fine That remains to be seen really. Internet porn is a completely different thing to finding a porn mag in a bush one day. The kids who have grown up with easily accessible internet porn are only just reaching maturity. We already know that birth rates are decreasing, sperm rates are decreasing, impotence in young, health men is increasing, single mothers are increasing. It doesn't bode well. Speaking from experience I think access to internet porn is hugely damaging for young men. Men are naturally polygamous and want to mate with as many women as possible. Porn provides a simulation of that but with instant gratification and no concern for feelings of another person and all that stuff that comes along with a real relationship. Many men are finding that having sex with a single woman of average attractiveness just doesn't cut it. But I have no idea what to do about it barring maybe a full Butlerian Jihad style expunction.
- raducu 6y ago
  "Many men are finding that having sex with a single woman of average attractiveness just doesn't cut it." Given that ~30% of young men are sexless and only ~15% of young women are sexless in the previous year, that just reeks of 3d wave feminism bullshit. Just as men are polyamorous, women are hypergamous, but nobody dares try to limit that. If we want normal birthrates and normal involvment from young men, we should: eliminate tax havens, tax, tax and tax some more owning more than one house, eliminate education borrowing, have affordable/public healthcare and education. Have a hard, data driven look of the population self-sustainability of cities, and tax cities that benefit from influx of population, and use that money to develop areas that have higher birth rates.
  - raxxorrax 6y ago
    Both suggestions from both of you don't fit with my observations at all. People that do actually found families are overwhelmingly faithful in monogamous relationships, complete penguin style with house, dog and kids. Yes, yes, of course every second couple has a secret BDSM-basement and countless affairs... or maybe not. I think the evolutionary explanation we often hear are mostly horseshit to be honest and wouldn't even make sense since humans need decades to mature. The only trend I see is that people not married by 30 mostly aren't going to do it later and in many cases the men and women don't even want a relationship anymore. The sudden decision of settling down after having countless relationships is certainly a lifestyle lie to yourself and others. Just accept that marriage might not be for you, which is completely fine. Contrary to popular belief there is no pope forcing you to marry anyone. Some say there is societal pressure, but your mom and dad aren't society. Maybe these impressions actually do stem from porn although I don't really believe that either. Lifestyle choice seem to be primarily influenced by class and education. Maybe porn consumption is too, but I doubt it.
kiba 6y ago
Their kids are probably going to be better with tech at some point. Are they? Just because a kid uses snapchat and their iphones a lot doesn't meant they're technically savy. Really, what distinguish a technical person from a "normal" person is a certain fearlessness when it comes to technology.
- raxxorrax 6y ago
  Well, true that certain systems hinder you in becoming proficient with software, even if these are called "accessibility features". But if there is a goal I am sure they will get crafty pretty quickly.
- globular-toast 6y ago
  Agreed. We all grew up with books but few of us know anything about printing and binding.
- dhosek 6y ago
  I've seen exactly that fearlessness with my six-year old twins when they get a hold of my phone or iPad. They've found features I didn't even know existed. They also are really adaptable. My wife, who is used to using either her iPad or her surface for computing has, despite a much longer span of using mouse/trackpad driven selection, developed a hard to break habit of tapping the screen on my MacBook. My kids, when we switched them to the MacBook for their virtual class meetings, adapted to using the trackpad without a moment's hesitation. They were also infinitely better than any of my co-workers have been about muting/unmuting themselves appropriately during videoconferences, as have their classmates. They're just learning to read still but once they've unlocked that achievement, I can only imagine what they'll be capable of doing.
  - wizzwizz4 6y ago
    Hijacking the thread to say: make sure they've got access to something with exposed innards. Windows is enough of a patched-together mess that it's a good candidate (I'd argue it's better (more messy) now than it was when I cut my teeth on it), but a 'nix with systemd, a web server or a low-voltage electronics kit would do nicely.
watwut 6y ago
> Their kids are probably going to be better with tech at some point. For all the anecdotes about kids overcoming this or that technical, majority of kids has astonishingly little knowledge.
- dhosek 6y ago
  But kids pass information around when there's motivation. When I was in high school, I didn't have a computer or access to BBS sites, but I had friends who did and that's how, for example, I ended up with an 800 number I could use to make free long distance calls and a binder full of Apple ][ software.
jacobr 6y ago
> They also were exposed and survived just fine Most people also survived driving without a seatbelt before it became illegal. Just because something is not dangerous or damaging in 100% of cases does not mean it’s not problematic or should not be made slightly less convenient to access. That prevention is not 100% effective also does not mean it will have 0 positive effect. I’m still against age filters like this though, because they tend to also block access to legitimate sex education and info about HBT issues that can be life saving for teenagers.
pc86 6y ago
Nobody is subjected to anything online. You choose what you receive.
- partomniscient 6y ago
  Actually, there's a really good example that disproves this in this video on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
  - gridlockd 6y ago
    That doesn't disprove it. A random link on the internet is understood to be Schrödinger's Porn. A random link to YouTube, on the other hand, is a much more family-friendly Schrödinger's RickRoll.
    - partomniscient 6y ago
      >A random link to YouTube, on the other hand, is a much more family-friendly Schrödinger's RickRoll. Except when it's not. The only way to find out is to open the box. Er, I mean click the link. Others may be people that somehow 'peeked in that box' enough times they didn't want to do it again and their local memory has stored the URL and associated it with a negative outcome. URL shortener's totally destroy that learnt ability. There's kind of a reason people came up with the term "risky click of the day" and now there's 'NSFL' (Not Safe For Life), which is extremely worrying. Anyway, I got upvoted which means it still worked, and I got to legitimitely rickroll someone on HN and they appreciated the lesson. Woohoo. One of the problems with the software engineers solution to these kinds of problems is that create a plugin that checks whether the url resolves to the rickroll video or not. The problem is definitely solved, but now the computer/browser is slower for everyday use. Also the problem is still easily recreatable at a different level of abstraction. (e.g. aforementioned URL shorteners or copying the rickroll video to another location) <-- this is the really hard problem to solve and we haven't even used encryption yet. When it reaches the level of the politicians 'protect the children' where its about votes and appearing to do the right thing but none of the people understand the implementation problems and we discuss the absurdity of it on HN. You do however get to be technically correct. It's not a proof. It's more like circumstantial evidence in experiential form.
Ghjklov 6y ago
Do you know what porn today is like? There's so much of it and a lot of it is highly stimulating, full of interesting and unattainable-in-real-life kinks. Maybe you were exposed, but it was not likely as accessible as it is for kids/people now. Unless you have experienced the pit of despair, going through porn addiction, it's easy to think that people are going to survive it fine just like we did. A lot of people can enjoy a healthy amount of porn and then move on from it because they were able to get a real life partner or something. Many are destroyed by it, because they have no other option and simply go downhill from there. But it's true, you can't just ban it either. That's definitely what I'm not asking for.
shanecleveland 6y ago
You’re focused just on those looking to circumvent these blocks knowingly. Where there’s a will, there is a way, no doubt. I recently had an elementary-grade child stumble upon pornhub through a google search. I am ultimately responsible for this, and we now have more than one content filtering service in place, including one we pay for. I don’t think it is too much to ask to have those who want to view this content to be the ones who have to jump through hoops. I’m not that old, and the ease of access to adult content is much greater than when I was my childrens’ ages. The fact that it is so easy now and that technology is so ingrained in their everyday lives makes it that much more important to creat safe spaces for them.
sansowari 6y ago
My hypothesis is just that they don't want to legalize selling pornography to teenagers, because teenagers are so horny that they'd become a big market for porn (sort of like they're a big market for casual-mobile gacha games) and then pornographers would start making porn targeted at teenagers. Which, uh.
nefasti 6y ago
I have a porn addiction since I was 14, not really fine.
- Waterfall 6y ago
  https://pmohackbook.org/ https://pmohackbook.org/ This helped me.
Grustaf 6y ago
The amount and type of porn available now is completely different from what we grew up with, there’s no comparison at all.
- vorpalhex 6y ago
  Does a greater amount of more varied type somehow make it more damaging? I should point out that very explicit pornographic content that is now taboo in our society including bestiality, incest, and so on has existed for thousands of years. I'd much rather my kids be looking at pornhub than some of the things the Greeks and Romans were making...
  - Grustaf 6y ago
    What “exists” is not very relevant, the difference is that when i was a kid you’d have to steal a magazine from a shop and it would have a bunch of photos of naked women, sometimes having sex. Now endless amounts of porn is available at the click of a button, of course that’s much worse.
sizzle 6y ago
"They also were exposed and survived just fine" That's true and all but I wouldn't downplay the devastating effects of pornography addiction during adolescence through college and into adult life and how this unfettered all-access pass to sexual media can start to effect your social life and education negatively when your prefrontal cortex is constantly lit up to get that sweet dopamine fix from moving pixels on a screen. Why go out into the real world and put in the work to be rewarded in the flesh when you can get 10x the novelty and fantasy of anything you desire at the click of a button? (generally speaking). Our brains never evolved to handle the onslaught of readily available hyper-pleasurable vices (e.g. drugs, alcohol, social media likes, porn, etc) that create positive, self-reinforcing neural pathways for addiction that are extremely hard to extinguish on your own and offer you an escape from reality and discomfort. Not saying everyone experiences this, but it seems irresponsible to let young kids create and reinforce these addiction pathways in their reward centers of their brain before their brain and pre-frontal cortex is fully developed in their 20's. I know I struggle with this stuff from an early age after stumbling on magazines and VHS cassettes at a too young age to understand what this was doing to my young brain now looking back, the hooks have set in deep.
arnoooooo 6y ago
There's plenty of scientific evidence to suggest that porn is not that great : https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/relevant-research-and-articles-about-the-studies/ https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/relevant-research-and-articl...
Waterfall 6y ago
I actually think that porn can have a detrimental effect on people, not permanent, but also not always the best. Will government regulation fix it? No. Kids now are having less sex, they are more isolated, and males are now having way less sex in general, so what fills in the place? Porn. If you get rid of porn and not have any changes in society, they will not magically go away. If you or a loved one has a problem with porn: https://pmohackbook.org/ https://pmohackbook.org/ The teeth brushing thing is funny there was an onion video that said smoking is gay. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82x9pzHkHK4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82x9pzHkHK4

riffraff 6y ago

I mean, before the internet kids were generally not allowed to buy porn, and yet I remember we managed to get VHS, games, magazines, and even erotic comics as minors.

mytailorisrich 6y ago

In most countries pornography is restricted to people over 18 by law. This was not too difficult to enforce when access was mostly in person, but it has become difficult now that access is mostly online. If society agrees that young people below a certain age should not have access to pornography then it is reasonable, even necessary, to try to implement ways to enforce that restriction online.

randomchars 6y ago
Alcohol and cigarettes are restricted to people above 18/21 in most places. Yet somehow I see 14-15 year olds drinking and smoking (even weed, which is illegal). I think I first saw a porn magazine before I was 10. Where there's a will, there's a way. You can't use technology for this, because there will always be a will, so they'll ALWAYS find a way.
- nocitrek 6y ago
  The point is that proportion of young adults that will access to porn will change from 100% to ~25%. Of course people will find a way, but the question is how much effort will they put in before they give up. If the effort barrier is too high, you will cull off some people - the purpose of this legislation.
  - randomchars 6y ago
    Why would it change? It's not like officially not being able buy alcohol stops anyone who wants to drink from drinking. We can pretend that this is the biggest danger that people under 18 face, but let's be real, much worse things can happen to them, than watching porn. This shouldn't be solved at the government level, but at the family level. By parents talking to kids. Also, unless they implement something like the PRC's firewall, it will a 100% be an inept solution that's easy to get around.
    - nocitrek 6y ago
      I think many men today have their brains altered from watching too much excessive porn. Fetishes develop and normal healthy relationships become problematic due to performance issues. There are many worse thing than porn, yes, but to be healthy well rounded adult, it does not help (at least excessive). Family can help, but some topics are taboo in many families, especially when man ego is in question. If you could not statisfy your wife, would you speak with your mother for help? Yes, you can say it should start from young age, but both parents are at work and kids are left with high-speed internet and tablets. They react positively to porn and can get addicted - its a single click away. Hard to prevent that, eh. I think we will witness the true effect of porn on males mind in future.

onion2k 6y ago

Adult websites want brownie points and also don't like nonpayers, but mess with their revenue and you'll get a push back. There's basically one company that runs all the major porn sites (Mindgeek). That company was going to be provider of the age verification system the UK government looked in to that's now been scrapped. The company also sells a VPN for circumventing blockers including the age verification systems. It's really a brilliant three-sided-market business. The problem is that a lot people expect porn to be free now, because there are so many free videos it's enough for all but the most dedicate porn watcher. This move has nothing do with "protecting children" and everything to do with the porn industry realising that they've given their product away for so long that the best way they can make money now is by lobbying governments to make people pay again.

rapnie 6y ago
Idk, but assume they could also make a good buck from selling the data they collect?

louthy 6y ago

Interestingly, it seems if one politician discovers fire, it would die with them. Surely, by now, one politician has learned how technology works and has started the process of teaching others?

tehbeard 6y ago
Your assumption relies on politicians working cooperatively rather than as sock puppets for whichever interest has the most "donations".
- wizzwizz4 6y ago
  Some politicians, like some journalists, have integrity. There are high pressures on both to not have integrity, and yet they persist.

DanBC 6y ago

People on HN always seem to misunderstand the point of these measures. They're not there to make it impossible for anyone under the age of 18 to ever see pornographic content. They exist to make sure that porn isn't pushed at children who don't want to see it. It wasn't that long ago that pornographic ads were common on some ad networks or in email spam. It's this accidental stumbling upon porn that the measures aim to stop. The blocks are always described in the strongest possible terms by the politicians pushing them because: 1) It makes the public think politicians are taking strong action against poor behaviour 2) It gives the politicians a stronger bargaining position: implement good voluntary age restrictions or we'll put in place a stupid filter.

randomchars 6y ago
Where is porn pushed onto anyone in the internet now? I don't think I seen anything remotely porn-like without looking for it.
- srean 6y ago
  Quite common if you were to watch a movie online for free. Not on Amazon Prime or Netflix of course, but not all movies that I am interested in is available on Netflix, Amazon Prime in my region.
  - randomchars 6y ago
    You mean those streaming sites, where the page is 3/4 advertisements? Yeah, I image those have porn ads, but adblock helps there too.
    - walls 6y ago
      I also do not see them being the kind of sites to comply with something like this.
  - GoblinSlayer 6y ago
    Streaming is cancer, block all streaming sites, especially Netflix.

threatofrain 6y ago

If you make chocolate milk just a little harder to reach, kids at scale will be reaching for it less, and we're just talking about chocolate milk. You make returning your product just a few minutes harder and fewer people will be getting their money back.

Fernicia 6y ago

Well similarly, I can access BBC iPlayer from outside the U.K. too. It takes reconnecting to a VPN several times and streaming over a patchy connection, but I can do it. Does that make the BBC's geolocking pointless? No, because most people can't and even I am discouraged to do it because the experience is such a hassle. And in this case even the kids who can access porn: making it difficult enough that their 12 year old selves can't but their 15 year old selves can is a success. Or making it something they can plan out, but not do in the spur of the moment is also a success.

mtnGoat 6y ago

Umm. In fact, most adult site revenue comes from non-payers, they view ads and help keep that count up. If they are allowing Chinese traffic (and most do), they'll take anything.

sosborn 6y ago

My opinion as a father of two: Putting up roadblocks to accessing these materials is good. Some things really are damaging to young minds. However, I'm not stupid. At some point they will get exposed to this stuff and if my children put in the effort to learn how to bypass those roadblocks, then great, at least they learned something in the process.