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Can you really be both a public figure and keep your identity hidden by way of asking? There’s a playbook for this. Look at Banksy for example. If you don’t

Can you really be both a public figure and keep your identity hidden by way of asking? There’s a playbook for this. Look at Banksy for example. If you don’t want your identity out there it’s your job to protect it. Not the New York Times.

whatshisface 6y ago
Banksy is an interesting example because the NYT probably does know who he is. It's not that much of a secret.
- atlasunshrugged 6y ago
  Is it really obvious? I just skimmed the Wikipedia page and didn't see it - who is it?
  - jasonv 6y ago
    "Banksy is often assumed to be Robin..."
    - atlasunshrugged 6y ago
      lol duh, sorry and thanks.
- 627467 6y ago
  Yeah, that's why now I want to know what NYT had to write about SSC that "required doxxing the source against their will".
modeless 6y ago
Banksy's identity is right on his Wikipedia page for anyone who really wants to know. I think NYT and other media are keeping him "anonymous" by way of asking. They could easily publish his name if they wanted. Unlike SSC, Banksy seems to hold similar political views to NYT, so they have no problem playing along. The only truly anonymous public figure I'm aware of is Satoshi Nakamoto and I'm pretty sure that the only reason he stayed anonymous is that he died before he could be definitively found out.
- Reedx 6y ago
  > Banksy's identity is right on his Wikipedia page Maybe, but it's not confirmed. "Banksy's name and identity remain unconfirmed and the subject of speculation." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banksy#Personal_life_and_disputed_identity https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banksy#Personal_life_and_dis...
- DubiousPusher 6y ago
  > Banksy seems to hold similar political views to NYT, so they have no problem playing along. Genuinely curious of your basis for this. As far as I can tell SSC and most rationalist adjacents are basically neo-libs which the NYT has been a bastion of for decades.
  - adventured 6y ago
    > and most rationalist adjacents are basically neo-libs which the NYT has been a bastion of for decades. That New York Times no longer exists and hasn't for well over a decade.
    - DubiousPusher 6y ago
      I do not follow. The paper seems to be basically the same as it has been for almost a century, an institution which essentially does the work of the news from the perspectives and prejudices of its North Eastern upper middle class constituency and which gives wide deference to institutions which it deems qualified such as the military, civil service and certain NGOs. But I am open to the idea that my interpretation is missing something.
  - astine 6y ago
    SSC has been critical of the way the news media works in the past. Just because they might fit in the same ideological bucket in your schema doesn't mean that the NYT would see SSC as a friend. I'm not saying that's why we're at this impasse, just that your argument is flawed.
    - 6y ago
MattGaiser 6y ago
NYT knows who Banksy is. He gets to have anonymity.
everybodyknows 6y ago
A reasonable claim of principle, but difficult in practice. Consider that quite a few people believe they know the true identity of Banksy: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banksy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banksy
smt88 6y ago
It doesn't seem like Alexander tried that hard to stay pseudonymous anyway. He has published under his full name. It seems that his major issue was his full name becoming NYT-level famous, which is reasonable. I think that happens to lots of private citizens who get covered by mainstream news, like a IRL "hug of death". If my premises are correct, then it doesn't seem like NYT's responsibility to keep his name private when he himself didn't do it.
ggreer 6y ago
Even when a subject's legal name is known, the NYT regularly uses a pen name or pseudonym to protect their identity. Here are some examples: - Virgil Texas, co-host of the Chapo Trap House podcast: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/29/us/politics/bernie-sanders-chapo-trap-house.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/29/us/politics/bernie-sander... - Vermin Supreme, performance artist: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/30/us/politics/libertarians-see-chance-amid-discontent-over-donald-trump-and-hillary-clinton.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/30/us/politics/libertarians-... - Drag queens such as Lil Miss Hot Mess, Sister Roma, and Heklina: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/25/fashion/drag-performers-fight-facebooks-real-name-policy.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/25/fashion/drag-performers-f... - Baseball statistician Tom Tango: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/29/magazine/why-are-some-new-statistics-embraced-and-not-others.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/29/magazine/why-are-some-new... - Gay niche erotica writer Chuck Tingle: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/22/opinion/chuck-tingles-internet-magic.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/22/opinion/chuck-tingles-int... - A Canadian who traveled to Syria to fight for ISIS: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/20/podcasts/caliphate-transcript-chapter-ten-one-year-later.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/20/podcasts/caliphate-transc... - A random person: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/25/nyregion/commodes-if-not-commutes-have-improved-at-port-authority-bus-terminal.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/25/nyregion/commodes-if-not-... > A second person who checked out the women’s restroom — and who asked not to be identified because she has always wanted to be an anonymous source — reported her findings by email... - Jeremiah Moss: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/05/nyregion/a-cranky-blogger-crusades-to-preserve-the-ordinary-in-new-york.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/05/nyregion/a-cranky-blogger... > Mr. Moss, which is not his real name — more on that to come — took part in a doomed attempt to save the Café Edison, a beloved Times Square coffee shop whose landlord was looking to replace it with a classier establishment. ... A therapist and a writer, he says he is worried that clients might object to his activism. "A therapist and a writer", hmmm... who else fits that description? Oh right, Scott Alexander!
- joshuamorton 6y ago
  > Even when a subject's legal name is known, the NYT regularly uses a pen name or pseudonym to protect their identity. Here are some examples: I don't think using the examples of performing artists is a good one. Vermin and the Drag queens don't use pseudonyms to protect their identities any more than Beyonce (a stage name that is a part of her legal name, as in SSC's case) or Lady Gaga (a stage name) use those names for "protection" or privacy. They aren't really, they're branding. In fact, from the draq queen article you cite: > “I started a big fuss,” said Sister Roma, whose legal name is Michael Williams. “Then Facebook called me and offered to organize a meeting.” It's a direct counterexample.

whatshisface 6y ago

Banksy is an interesting example because the NYT probably does know who he is. It's not that much of a secret.

atlasunshrugged 6y ago
Is it really obvious? I just skimmed the Wikipedia page and didn't see it - who is it?
- jasonv 6y ago
  "Banksy is often assumed to be Robin..."
  - atlasunshrugged 6y ago
    lol duh, sorry and thanks.
627467 6y ago
Yeah, that's why now I want to know what NYT had to write about SSC that "required doxxing the source against their will".

modeless 6y ago

Banksy's identity is right on his Wikipedia page for anyone who really wants to know. I think NYT and other media are keeping him "anonymous" by way of asking. They could easily publish his name if they wanted. Unlike SSC, Banksy seems to hold similar political views to NYT, so they have no problem playing along. The only truly anonymous public figure I'm aware of is Satoshi Nakamoto and I'm pretty sure that the only reason he stayed anonymous is that he died before he could be definitively found out.

Reedx 6y ago
> Banksy's identity is right on his Wikipedia page Maybe, but it's not confirmed. "Banksy's name and identity remain unconfirmed and the subject of speculation." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banksy#Personal_life_and_disputed_identity https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banksy#Personal_life_and_dis...
DubiousPusher 6y ago
> Banksy seems to hold similar political views to NYT, so they have no problem playing along. Genuinely curious of your basis for this. As far as I can tell SSC and most rationalist adjacents are basically neo-libs which the NYT has been a bastion of for decades.
- adventured 6y ago
  > and most rationalist adjacents are basically neo-libs which the NYT has been a bastion of for decades. That New York Times no longer exists and hasn't for well over a decade.
  - DubiousPusher 6y ago
    I do not follow. The paper seems to be basically the same as it has been for almost a century, an institution which essentially does the work of the news from the perspectives and prejudices of its North Eastern upper middle class constituency and which gives wide deference to institutions which it deems qualified such as the military, civil service and certain NGOs. But I am open to the idea that my interpretation is missing something.
- astine 6y ago
  SSC has been critical of the way the news media works in the past. Just because they might fit in the same ideological bucket in your schema doesn't mean that the NYT would see SSC as a friend. I'm not saying that's why we're at this impasse, just that your argument is flawed.
  - 6y ago

MattGaiser 6y ago

NYT knows who Banksy is. He gets to have anonymity.

everybodyknows 6y ago

A reasonable claim of principle, but difficult in practice. Consider that quite a few people believe they know the true identity of Banksy: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banksy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banksy

smt88 6y ago

It doesn't seem like Alexander tried that hard to stay pseudonymous anyway. He has published under his full name. It seems that his major issue was his full name becoming NYT-level famous, which is reasonable. I think that happens to lots of private citizens who get covered by mainstream news, like a IRL "hug of death". If my premises are correct, then it doesn't seem like NYT's responsibility to keep his name private when he himself didn't do it.

ggreer 6y ago

Even when a subject's legal name is known, the NYT regularly uses a pen name or pseudonym to protect their identity. Here are some examples: - Virgil Texas, co-host of the Chapo Trap House podcast: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/29/us/politics/bernie-sanders-chapo-trap-house.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/29/us/politics/bernie-sander... - Vermin Supreme, performance artist: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/30/us/politics/libertarians-see-chance-amid-discontent-over-donald-trump-and-hillary-clinton.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/30/us/politics/libertarians-... - Drag queens such as Lil Miss Hot Mess, Sister Roma, and Heklina: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/25/fashion/drag-performers-fight-facebooks-real-name-policy.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/25/fashion/drag-performers-f... - Baseball statistician Tom Tango: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/29/magazine/why-are-some-new-statistics-embraced-and-not-others.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/29/magazine/why-are-some-new... - Gay niche erotica writer Chuck Tingle: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/22/opinion/chuck-tingles-internet-magic.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/22/opinion/chuck-tingles-int... - A Canadian who traveled to Syria to fight for ISIS: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/20/podcasts/caliphate-transcript-chapter-ten-one-year-later.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/20/podcasts/caliphate-transc... - A random person: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/25/nyregion/commodes-if-not-commutes-have-improved-at-port-authority-bus-terminal.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/25/nyregion/commodes-if-not-... > A second person who checked out the women’s restroom — and who asked not to be identified because she has always wanted to be an anonymous source — reported her findings by email... - Jeremiah Moss: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/05/nyregion/a-cranky-blogger-crusades-to-preserve-the-ordinary-in-new-york.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/05/nyregion/a-cranky-blogger... > Mr. Moss, which is not his real name — more on that to come — took part in a doomed attempt to save the Café Edison, a beloved Times Square coffee shop whose landlord was looking to replace it with a classier establishment. ... A therapist and a writer, he says he is worried that clients might object to his activism. "A therapist and a writer", hmmm... who else fits that description? Oh right, Scott Alexander!

joshuamorton 6y ago
> Even when a subject's legal name is known, the NYT regularly uses a pen name or pseudonym to protect their identity. Here are some examples: I don't think using the examples of performing artists is a good one. Vermin and the Drag queens don't use pseudonyms to protect their identities any more than Beyonce (a stage name that is a part of her legal name, as in SSC's case) or Lady Gaga (a stage name) use those names for "protection" or privacy. They aren't really, they're branding. In fact, from the draq queen article you cite: > “I started a big fuss,” said Sister Roma, whose legal name is Michael Williams. “Then Facebook called me and offered to organize a meeting.” It's a direct counterexample.