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Some ideas that look poorly thought out are in fact pretty good, just different from what we would do ourselves. In my experience it is a key skill to objectiv

by ptero 6y ago

Some ideas that look poorly thought out are in fact pretty good, just different from what we would do ourselves. In my experience it is a key skill to objectively evaluate ideas that are different from my preferences and accept those that are good enough, but not use my preferred way of doing things. This is a quick path to get a seat at the table and getting your opinions heard. My 2c.

Angostura 6y ago
A perspective worth considerably more than 2c. Made me think.
dwd 6y ago
I agree with your sentiment and yes, a workable solution is always the best solution. Idea was probably the wrong word, it's the highly vested, fully formed solutions that I've had issues with. Also, in saying that, I do believe domain knowledge is far more valuable that programming chops, and not understanding the domain to be able to translate that into an application process is worse that someone with domain knowledge trying to come up with how it should be coded. Some of the best projects I've worked on involved a lot of sitting and drinking coffee with the domain expert.
- Aeolun 6y ago
  I think the problem is that getting the information from the domain expert and then running and programming with it is doable, but the domain expert cannot ask you for advice on programming and then build an application (at least not in the same timeframe).
mgkimsal 6y ago
> Some ideas that look poorly thought out are in fact pretty good The only times I've ever found that to be true is when there's other details available that I'm not aware of. Business constraints "everyone knows" about but aren't documented anywhere, for example. Decisions made in a meeting that aren't communicated out, meaning, essentially, that you only are given a portion of the problem and request. This gets back to the 'seat at the table' concern above. The 'seat at the table' is far more related to interpersonal/political skills than technical ones, but can be chicken/egg in some places.
- ptero 6y ago
  My opinion is certainly skewed by my personal experience, so take it with a grain of salt. That said, engineers are a highly opinionated bunch and a group of 5 will have 5 different personal preferences. But they are smart and will quickly recognize an objective opinion that is not hard-driven by personal preferences. Folks with good technical judgement who are willing to accept a different approach quickly become a highly respected member of the community. They frequently end up with more tables offering them seats, in a technical expert role, than they care to occupy.
  - dwd 6y ago
    This is one of those places where strong opinions, loosely held should be applied. And I can imagine those people getting more invites simply on the basis of possibly being more agreeable to interact with. Programming is an abstraction (a perspective on what the computer is really doing) that is very much shaped by the tools we choose to use. Meta-religion is probably a fair way to describe it, and can be every bit as divisive in some circles.

by ptero 6y ago

Angostura 6y ago

A perspective worth considerably more than 2c. Made me think.

dwd 6y ago

I agree with your sentiment and yes, a workable solution is always the best solution. Idea was probably the wrong word, it's the highly vested, fully formed solutions that I've had issues with. Also, in saying that, I do believe domain knowledge is far more valuable that programming chops, and not understanding the domain to be able to translate that into an application process is worse that someone with domain knowledge trying to come up with how it should be coded. Some of the best projects I've worked on involved a lot of sitting and drinking coffee with the domain expert.

Aeolun 6y ago
I think the problem is that getting the information from the domain expert and then running and programming with it is doable, but the domain expert cannot ask you for advice on programming and then build an application (at least not in the same timeframe).

mgkimsal 6y ago

> Some ideas that look poorly thought out are in fact pretty good The only times I've ever found that to be true is when there's other details available that I'm not aware of. Business constraints "everyone knows" about but aren't documented anywhere, for example. Decisions made in a meeting that aren't communicated out, meaning, essentially, that you only are given a portion of the problem and request. This gets back to the 'seat at the table' concern above. The 'seat at the table' is far more related to interpersonal/political skills than technical ones, but can be chicken/egg in some places.

ptero 6y ago
My opinion is certainly skewed by my personal experience, so take it with a grain of salt. That said, engineers are a highly opinionated bunch and a group of 5 will have 5 different personal preferences. But they are smart and will quickly recognize an objective opinion that is not hard-driven by personal preferences. Folks with good technical judgement who are willing to accept a different approach quickly become a highly respected member of the community. They frequently end up with more tables offering them seats, in a technical expert role, than they care to occupy.
- dwd 6y ago
  This is one of those places where strong opinions, loosely held should be applied. And I can imagine those people getting more invites simply on the basis of possibly being more agreeable to interact with. Programming is an abstraction (a perspective on what the computer is really doing) that is very much shaped by the tools we choose to use. Meta-religion is probably a fair way to describe it, and can be every bit as divisive in some circles.