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Why would China specifically care what the pope has to say? I understand the pope is the one not expressing anything but why would China even pressure him in th

Why would China specifically care what the pope has to say? I understand the pope is the one not expressing anything but why would China even pressure him in the first place. I thought China was already prohibiting religion from taking place. So what leverage does China have on the pope?

starfallg 6y ago
Catholicism exists and is heavily regulated in China. The CCP (unsurprisingly) appoints the bisbops. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_in_China
- k__ 6y ago
  "the Chinese government established the Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association,[2] which rejects the authority of the Holy See" What about Jesus? lol
  - netsharc 6y ago
    You kid, but I'd say humans disagreeing about what the man (and his boy) in the sky thinks has been the source of millennia of conflict...
  - raxxorrax 6y ago
    Every Lutheran christian rejects their authority too.
    - k__ 6y ago
      That's why I find this even funnier. What is left of the catholic church if you reject the pope? Protestants
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        > What is left of the catholic church if you reject the pope? > Protestants I think you mean “Eastern Orthodox”, as they both were rejecting the primacy (at least, in the terms Catholics define it) of the Pope long before Protestants existed and remain closer to the Roman Catholics on most points other than the primacy of the Pope than Protestants, who reject a lot more about Catholicism than the role of the Pope.
redis_mlc 6y ago
> Why would China specifically care what the pope has to say? Over millenia, Chinese rulers of each dynasty have worked to establish legitimacy. After you have that mandate, your rule cannot be questioned. So having independent religious leaders raises questions over who is really in charge. Similarly, the underlying reason China cannot tolerate Taiwan independence is that it shows an alternate world to the CCP.
dirtyid 6y ago
Holy See still recognizes Taiwan as official "China". China started courting Vatican a few years ago to change recognition, one point of leverage is 2018 Holy See-China Agreement which allows Pope to veto bishops China select, which gives Vatican some semblance of control and future access. On religion, just the opposite if you go by Buddhism numbers, +200m since cultural revolution. I've read that China wants to promote religion with Chinese characteristics as a foreign policy tool. Countries along the Belt & Road in China's sphere of influence are religious - being able to send out Chinese representatives with shared religious background might be beneficial. Maybe Chinese missionaries could even disseminate religion with Chinese characteristics. On top of internal stability, behind the elevated repression happening in XJ and Tibet are efforts to sinicize the major religions in terms of physical design (symbolism, architecture) and political structure to harmonize with Chinese society. Maybe there's a generalized "socialist" package for authoritarian governments to export. Though I find this thesis suspect, it invites sectarianism when money is already the universal religion, one China manipulates effectively.

starfallg 6y ago

Catholicism exists and is heavily regulated in China. The CCP (unsurprisingly) appoints the bisbops. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_in_China

k__ 6y ago
"the Chinese government established the Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association,[2] which rejects the authority of the Holy See" What about Jesus? lol
- netsharc 6y ago
  You kid, but I'd say humans disagreeing about what the man (and his boy) in the sky thinks has been the source of millennia of conflict...
- raxxorrax 6y ago
  Every Lutheran christian rejects their authority too.
  - k__ 6y ago
    That's why I find this even funnier. What is left of the catholic church if you reject the pope? Protestants
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > What is left of the catholic church if you reject the pope? > Protestants I think you mean “Eastern Orthodox”, as they both were rejecting the primacy (at least, in the terms Catholics define it) of the Pope long before Protestants existed and remain closer to the Roman Catholics on most points other than the primacy of the Pope than Protestants, who reject a lot more about Catholicism than the role of the Pope.

redis_mlc 6y ago

> Why would China specifically care what the pope has to say? Over millenia, Chinese rulers of each dynasty have worked to establish legitimacy. After you have that mandate, your rule cannot be questioned. So having independent religious leaders raises questions over who is really in charge. Similarly, the underlying reason China cannot tolerate Taiwan independence is that it shows an alternate world to the CCP.

dirtyid 6y ago

Holy See still recognizes Taiwan as official "China". China started courting Vatican a few years ago to change recognition, one point of leverage is 2018 Holy See-China Agreement which allows Pope to veto bishops China select, which gives Vatican some semblance of control and future access. On religion, just the opposite if you go by Buddhism numbers, +200m since cultural revolution. I've read that China wants to promote religion with Chinese characteristics as a foreign policy tool. Countries along the Belt & Road in China's sphere of influence are religious - being able to send out Chinese representatives with shared religious background might be beneficial. Maybe Chinese missionaries could even disseminate religion with Chinese characteristics. On top of internal stability, behind the elevated repression happening in XJ and Tibet are efforts to sinicize the major religions in terms of physical design (symbolism, architecture) and political structure to harmonize with Chinese society. Maybe there's a generalized "socialist" package for authoritarian governments to export. Though I find this thesis suspect, it invites sectarianism when money is already the universal religion, one China manipulates effectively.